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Old 02-07-2023, 10:19 PM   #421
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When Stone misses the net, which happens quite a bit, the puck usually gets out of the zone, and Stone isn't great at keeping pucks in on the PP. I think the Flames figured that they can create a more quality scoring opportunity than the Stone slap-shot closer to the net.
And I’m not sure I trust Stone to recognize the “other openings” when they play him tight. He will either get blocked or dump it in.
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Old 02-07-2023, 10:21 PM   #422
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And I’m not sure I trust Stone to recognize the “other openings” when they play him tight. He will either get blocked or dump it in.
lol GL with that, teams will be easier to score on when all their PKers are in the room
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Old 02-07-2023, 10:23 PM   #423
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lol GL with that, teams will be easier to score on when all their PKers are in the room
For some reason blocks at the point of the shot don’t hurt like ones a dozen feet away. Those are the blocks I’m talking about.
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Old 02-07-2023, 10:34 PM   #424
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lol GL with that, teams will be easier to score on when all their PKers are in the room
How many Stone shots do you expect? I mean we get an average of 3 PPs per game, and PP2 barely has any zone time because they have a hard time setting up in the o-zone.

They did try Stone on PP2 in the first quarter of the season with mixed results. There were quite a few short handed chances against if my memory serves me right. That said I'm all for trying something to change things up with both of our powerplays.
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Old 02-07-2023, 10:40 PM   #425
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Its not just putting him on the PP its the strategy of setting up his shot...then if they start covering it work it down low. His shot is virtually unstoppable if it hits the net its either a goal or a massive rebound. Everyone else is reluctant to shoot...they work it around for 45 seconds and then take the shot they could have taken 5 seconds in.
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Old 02-08-2023, 01:07 AM   #426
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Agree with Dino7c - Would much rather see Stone's deadly shot on the PP, with the chance of a rebound that kills that possession in the zone, than the awful alternative of passing it around the perimeter for a minute with a flakey, non threatening shot from the point and then a second minute of the same thing. So stupid.

Put some puck moving and shooting threats out there and try some things FFS. (Weegar/Stone).

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Old 02-08-2023, 01:11 AM   #427
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This damn team will play safe hockey to the grave if their style and line up choices continue. "skate around, don't give up anything, don't be creative, wear the other team down, we'll eventually tire them out with useless perimeter cycling and win the game on advanced stats!!!!!".
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Old 02-08-2023, 07:52 AM   #428
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If the skate blade stays on the ice, good goal. That removes the danger from it and removes any decision making from the ref.
There is no danger. No one has ever shown any instances of danger from someone trying to deflect a puck into the net. Your suggestion requires interpretation of when the skate leaves the ice, or whether it entirely leaves the ice. Who cares? The whole point of simplifying the rule is to eliminate video replay and uncertainty - you are simply changing the parameters of what constitutes uncertainty.

Players never lift their skates off the ice to score, their skates simply come off the ice as a natural progression of moving the leg forward. It isn't dangerous, and your rule wouldn't stop it. All it would do is cause more video reviews.

And to the others talking about pucks going in off legs and butts, players direct those all the time - again, who cares? If you can score with your ass, knock yourself out!
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Old 02-08-2023, 07:55 AM   #429
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Originally Posted by gvitaly View Post
When Stone misses the net, which happens quite a bit, the puck usually gets out of the zone, and Stone isn't great at keeping pucks in on the PP. I think the Flames figured that they can create a more quality scoring opportunity than the Stone slap-shot closer to the net.
Pretty easy to coach him to limit his shot taking to when he is near the middle of the ice. When closer to the boards (more angled shot), just take the wrister and get it to the front of the net.
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Old 02-08-2023, 10:35 AM   #430
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There is no danger. No one has ever shown any instances of danger from someone trying to deflect a puck into the net. Your suggestion requires interpretation of when the skate leaves the ice, or whether it entirely leaves the ice. Who cares? The whole point of simplifying the rule is to eliminate video replay and uncertainty - you are simply changing the parameters of what constitutes uncertainty.

Players never lift their skates off the ice to score, their skates simply come off the ice as a natural progression of moving the leg forward. It isn't dangerous, and your rule wouldn't stop it. All it would do is cause more video reviews.

And to the others talking about pucks going in off legs and butts, players direct those all the time - again, who cares? If you can score with your ass, knock yourself out!
I actually know of no injuries from players kicking at pucks. They've come from freak accidents with skates flying up in the air because a player fell.

and there's no rule about players kicking the puck in the crease. They do it all the time now, to try and dislodge it in a scrum

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Old 02-08-2023, 10:59 AM   #431
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I actually know of no injuries from players kicking at pucks. They've come from freak accidents with skates flying up in the air because a player fell.

and there's no rule about players kicking the puck in the crease. They do it all the time now, to try and dislodge it in a scrume.
Yeah, there is absolutely no evidence at all to suggest that players would start kicking wildly at pucks and endangering other players, if the goal rule were altered. Players just don't do that. It's the worst argument against a rule change, out there.
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Old 02-08-2023, 11:10 AM   #432
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Yeah, there is absolutely no evidence at all to suggest that players would start kicking wildly at pucks and endangering other players, if the goal rule were altered. Players just don't do that. It's the worst argument against a rule change, out there.
Well we don't know what would happen because it's not allowed right now. I think an easy compromise would be to allow kicking motion goals as long as the skate blade is along the ice, or something along those lines. You don't want soccer style kicks in the crease.
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Old 02-08-2023, 11:30 AM   #433
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Pretty easy to coach him to limit his shot taking to when he is near the middle of the ice. When closer to the boards (more angled shot), just take the wrister and get it to the front of the net.
Is it though? Fromt what I've seen (including the powerplay which he has been on from time to time) his two moves are: Shoot from the boards; dump along the boards. He doesn't have much "walking the line" ability.
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Old 02-08-2023, 12:21 PM   #434
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Well we don't know what would happen because it's not allowed right now. I think an easy compromise would be to allow kicking motion goals as long as the skate blade is along the ice, or something along those lines. You don't want soccer style kicks in the crease.
There are no circumstances of kicking, anywhere on the ice, or at any point in the game. The only rule that needs to be in place for kicking is that it should be a major or a match penalty, if you kick at another player.

As for the blade along the ice, you are left with the same problem of requiring video review to determine if and when the blade left the ice. No one lifts the blade on purpose to score, it doesn't require that subjectivity, nor that nuance to the rule.

Skates should be like knees and shin pads and butts and chins - if it goes off yours and in, good for you.
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Old 02-08-2023, 02:05 PM   #435
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There are no circumstances of kicking, anywhere on the ice, or at any point in the game. The only rule that needs to be in place for kicking is that it should be a major or a match penalty, if you kick at another player.

As for the blade along the ice, you are left with the same problem of requiring video review to determine if and when the blade left the ice. No one lifts the blade on purpose to score, it doesn't require that subjectivity, nor that nuance to the rule.

Skates should be like knees and shin pads and butts and chins - if it goes off yours and in, good for you.
If you allow all kicking of the puck in the net sooner or later you're going to see another Malarchuk-style incident. Nobody wants that. I don't mind kicking the puck in if the blade is along the ice, or very close to the ice, or whatever. But if the puck is in the air and the player has their stick tied up and they try to soccer-style the puck into the net it's going to get very ugly eventually. The NHL doesn't need scoring so badly that stuff like that should be allowed. The current rule isn't even that bad but I'd be fine with some tweaking of that rule, just not a free for all. A goal like Coleman's last spring should have been a no-brainer counted goal.
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Old 02-08-2023, 02:14 PM   #436
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As with most NHL officiating problems, it's not the rule that's the problem. It's that it gets applied seemingly at random.
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Old 02-08-2023, 04:23 PM   #437
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I saw one shift in the 3rd when the Flames were hemmed in badly by the Rangers. The puck came slowly to his wing near the blue line so many times and each time he couldn't skate fast enough to get it, where another player obviously would be able to do so and get the puck out of the zone. It was comical how behind the play he was. I went back and counted and it happened 7 times on one shift. Every time he was on the ice his line got caved in.

I love him for what he used to provide, but he's not scaring anybody (Trouba's big hits are an obvious piece of evidence against this), he's not hitting anyone because he can't catch them, he can't shoot, he can't pass, he makes bad choices with the puck, and he certainly can't skate at an NHL level anymore. I'm benching him in favor of Walker Duehr the rest of the year. At least Duehr can skate.
I thanked this and I usually love Lucic, but the game seems to have passed him by.
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Old 02-08-2023, 06:04 PM   #438
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I thanked this and I usually love Lucic, but the game seems to have passed him by.
You think the game has passed him by? He is so ahead of the game its crazy! He just doesnt realize that its because the game has lapped him.
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Old 02-08-2023, 06:57 PM   #439
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If you allow all kicking of the puck in the net sooner or later you're going to see another Malarchuk-style incident. Nobody wants that. I don't mind kicking the puck in if the blade is along the ice, or very close to the ice, or whatever. But if the puck is in the air and the player has their stick tied up and they try to soccer-style the puck into the net it's going to get very ugly eventually. The NHL doesn't need scoring so badly that stuff like that should be allowed. The current rule isn't even that bad but I'd be fine with some tweaking of that rule, just not a free for all. A goal like Coleman's last spring should have been a no-brainer counted goal.
I mean, come on... soccer-style scissor kicks? There is no world where that happens. (and a 'dangerous play' major penalty takes care of it, as mentioned already)

As for what actually happens during hockey games, yes, Coleman's should have counted, Mangiapane's correctly counted - they should all count. And the world would be a better place because we would have fewer video reviews
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Old 02-08-2023, 07:33 PM   #440
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Call me cynical, that Coleman goal would've counted if the opposition wasn't Edmonton. Mangiapane goal wouldn't have counted if the opposition is Edmonton.
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