"Elite" Minor Hockey

[Yoho]

Originally Posted by undercoverbrother

I wonder if these are the kids that Hockey Canada says (again by memory) are walking away from the sport.

You even see it in soccer.My daughter is in a U8 Elite program playing in Calgary Minor Soccer Association they practise 2-3 times a week plus one game/week.

Last weekend the opposition's coach (a dad) refused to play them because he didn't want to lose in a game that score is not kept, and just held a team practice on their end of the field for the entire hour, so the girls on my daughters team played freeze tag and stared accross the field.

Elite teams, or the idea of them are not for everyone.

[Derek Sutton]

Originally Posted by undercoverbrother

I think you are wrong actually, I seem to think it is far down the list of sports, but to be honest I am going by memory, and can't recall if the list I was was injuries per participant or total injuries.





Eh?

I can't find any studies related to youth box lacrosse, again just incidents which I've witnessed.

15yr old kids with serious chances at the NHL are not playing volleyball, basketball, badminton, football, beyond gym class or at the park as they have no time and will not want to risk injury. You will see some play soccer or baseball in the summer, maybe lacrosse but even by then the hockey kids and the lacrosse kids have seperated themselves.

I live in Lethbridge and not one kid who played AAA midget this year plays lacrosse anymore, I belive one kid from the AA team still plays lacrosse. I'm not saying what is right or wrong but the high level hockey players play hockey.

[pacde]

Really interesting discussion
I have a 7 year old (Sr Timbits) who is determined to play division one novice next year and wants to do all he can to make the team... doesn't really know much about the NHL yet, doesn't really even watch much hockey - just plays. His passions other than skating are bugs and cycling so I plan to spend a fair bit of time with him on the bike this summer.

Im the manager of his team and I think the estimates of kids in hockey in this city are low just going by the number of timbit teams that seem to be everywhere - but really that's just a guess.

Im always curious about how people look at spring hockey - lots of kids doing it from our team and comparing them to my son, I wouldn't say any of them are elite - just kids with passion and money. Ive always looked at passion for anything the same way I see passion for a person - its always better to get up and go while your partner still wants more... gives them the gift of missing it.

If my kid wanted to train to be an NHL player, I think I would do what I could to support them - including educating them on the odds, the downfalls, drawbacks, the training and commitment required and such - Thing is I really want my kids to reach high and never want to stop them from doing that or discourage that - at least if he ever gets to the point where he wants to play at some professional level, I'm not going to tell him its impossible.. I really just don't know

The one thing not mentioned here is the life skills a kid learns in hockey that I think are so important - goal setting, fitness, assertiveness etc. We spend about $1500 to $2000 on his hockey/skating related activities and its money well spent ... even if he decided he doesn't want to do it anymore.

[fundmark19]

Originally Posted by J epworth kendal

The other aspect I liked about it much more than spring hockey (did both) is that you meet a whole different group of friends, it's very refreshing to have that as a kid. I know when I switched over to spring hockey when I was 13 to try and make that next step I wasn't having as much fun as when I was playing lacrosse, and in hindsight wish I just kept with lacrosse in the summer.

This was also one of the first things that popped into my mind as well. I am still really close friends with my lacrosse buddies as I am with some of my hockey buddies who I still play beer league with. I would have never met the lacrosse guys if I had only focused on hockey

[habernac]

If he wants to be Novice 1 it's all about the skating. Skating, skating and more skating.

[undercoverbrother]

Originally Posted by habernac

If he wants to be Novice 1 it's all about the skating. Skating, skating and more skating.

Figure Skating

[pacde]

Originally Posted by undercoverbrother

Figure Skating

Well good news is he can skate
We tried to talk him into figure skating but he doesnt want to do it because there arent many boys... I keep telling him that will be an advantage for him in a few years

[Street Pharmacist]

My son wanted to try out for Rep hockey in peewee. I said no.

He's not likely good enough to play above tier 2/3 (not sure of the equivalent in Calgary), so no free education or chance at stardom. Instead he has stayed in Recreational league

Pros:
- gets to be one of the best players in the league
- lots of ice time
- gets to be in leadership roles in the team much easier
- cheaper. No $500 tryout fees, regular fees are thousands cheaper, tournament fees are cheaper and we don't have to pay for coaches
- less cheap hits (the one year of hitting saw him pulled out during the season after 3 concussions).
-far less travel


Cons:
- less competitive. It bugs him that some teammates don't care if they win or lose
-less glamour telling his friends in tier 2 and 3 that he plays house league
-less improvement in skills


It seems crazy someone would spend all that time/money to have their kids be this pairing defenseman on a tier 3 or 4 team. What exactly is the benefit to them? At what financial, physical and emotional cost?

[burn_baby_burn]

The spring hockey team in Red Deer is called the Rustlers. I did read the Ken Cambell book a year ago. I'm well aware that spring hockey is a business and that it is unsanctioned. My son likes hockey and even though I wouldn't say he is elite, he is a very strong skater and handles the puck very well. So, it he wants to play, I'm lucky to be able to afford for him to do so. He will also play baseball this spring, his choice. Not soccer though, because it's gay.

[undercoverbrother]

Originally Posted by burn_baby_burn

The spring hockey team in Red Deer is called the Rustlers. I did read the Ken Cambell book a year ago. I'm well aware that spring hockey is a business and that it is unsanctioned. My son likes hockey and even though I wouldn't say he is elite, he is a very strong skater and handles the puck very well. So, it he wants to play, I'm lucky to be able to afford for him to do so. He will also play baseball this spring, his choice.

What happend to the Generals?

I thought I heard buddy that owns the Rustlers owned the Generals as well.

Not soccer though, because it's gay.

This is true, not that there is anything wrong with that.

[burn_baby_burn]

Originally Posted by undercoverbrother

What happend to the Generals?

I thought I heard buddy that owns the Rustlers owned the Generals as well.





This is true, not that there is anything wrong with that.

I heard that too. They are having two teams, so maybe one is the Rustlers and one is the Generals, I'm not too sure. I'll probably know more next week.

[burn_baby_burn]

Originally Posted by pacde

The one thing not mentioned here is the life skills a kid learns in hockey that I think are so important - goal setting, fitness, assertiveness etc. We spend about $1500 to $2000 on his hockey/skating related activities and its money well spent ... even if he decided he doesn't want to do it anymore.

Parents need to remember that. Also the social aspect, my son lives for going to hockey because he loves the social part of it. An away tournament in a hotel with a swimming pool is the highlight of the season for these kids.

[undercoverbrother]

Originally Posted by burn_baby_burn

Parents need to remember that. Also the social aspect, my son lives for going to hockey because he loves the social part of it. An away tournament in a hotel with a swimming pool is the highlight of the season for these kids.

BBB, as much as I am against spring hockey,I hope you son enjoys himself and has fun, which is the goal.

Good Luck to him.

[burn_baby_burn]

Originally Posted by undercoverbrother

BBB, as much as I am against spring hockey,I hope you son enjoys himself and has fun, which is the goal.

Good Luck to him.

Thanks. I have heard the negatives about spring hockey, but I thought I would give him a shot and see what it is like before we passed judgement.

[undercoverbrother]

Originally Posted by fotze

It is social for the parents too. You make really good friends with the other parents getting half lit at those tournaments while the kids play mini-sticks.

Don't you do travel tourney's with regular hockey?

You will definitely notice a more distasteful vibe in the spring compared to the community stuff (at least I did). Also, if you can get with the coaching staff or be on the bench, do it. Its not cool when the for profit coach is playing to win and is triple shifting the best kid and you have paid a stupid amount to go to this stupid tournament and watch them play 2 shifts a game. Prepare yourself for that. I wouldn't piss on our former spring hockey if they were on fire.

Happy to see you are coming around to my way of thinking?

[undercoverbrother]

Originally Posted by fotze

That's what I was talking about. The spring tournies sucked for that, could be the team though.

Ah missread.....

[burn_baby_burn]

Originally Posted by fotze

Yup, that was the 7 am on a school day dryland guys.


It is social for the parents too. You make really good friends with the other parents getting half lit at those tournaments while the kids play mini-sticks.

You will definitely notice a more distasteful vibe in the spring compared to the community stuff (at least I did). Also, if you can get with the coaching staff or be on the bench, do it. Its not cool when the for profit coach is playing to win and is triple shifting the best kid and you have paid a stupid amount to go to this stupid tournament and watch them play 2 shifts a game. Prepare yourself for that. I wouldn't piss on our former spring hockey if they were on fire.

I agree, I enjoy the social part myself. One advantage to Red Deer is that it is still a pretty small place. We have a few friends who's kids are playing on the same spring team. Kids that are in school with my son, or kids that he played hockey with last year.

I'm prepared for the win at all costs attitude we could be facing. If that is what it is like and my son doesn't like it, we can say we tried it and move on to other spring activities in the future.

[burn_baby_burn]

Originally Posted by fotze

Ask how many kids will be on the team. You do not want to be on a team with 24 kids. 16 tops.

Only 20 showed up for tryouts. Then we are told that there is going to be two teams with practice starting this sunday. I'll be shocked if there is a lot of kids on the two teams. I'm sure they will max the rosters out to bring in as much cash as possible.

[Enoch Root]

Originally Posted by GreenLantern2814

Sure, if you assume Calgary minor hockey comprises 1000 kids a year. Which it does not.

Also, I would imagine that number is used in connection with community level organizations; 1 in 100,000 kids who plays through Trails West, Simons Valley, Mindapore, Blackfoot etc and doesn't go on to play for the Royals, Canucks etc makes the NHL.

Even at the club team level, the NHL success rate isn't that high.

Really not sure what you're talking about and where you are getting your numbers. There are no where near 100,000 kids playing hockey in Calgary - unless just about every child in the city is enrolled in hockey.

I have heard the number of 13,000 registered kids in hockey in Calgary.

I don't know how accurate that is, so I tried to get some numbers . According to hockey Canada, there are 570,000 Canadians registered in minor hockey. If we assume all of them are kids (and boys), then that would mean (if Calgary is similar to the rest of the country) that there are approximately 20,000 in Calgary (and again, that includes girls - who probably aren't in the running for making the NHL)

So I don't think that 13,000 is too far off. And since we are talking about ages 6-17, that means approximately 1,000 kids per year. It definitely does NOT mean anything close to 100,000 kids per year.

I don't know how many Calgarians are in the NHL, but my guess is between 5 and 10. If the average career is 10 years (it's less than that), that would mean one NHLer every year or two, which means 1 in 1,000 to 1 in 2,000.

[bc-chris]

i am amazed at the amount of $$ parents must pay for spring hockey. i have no clue how much it costs here in kelowna - but it's got to be a lot.... and i LOVE it!! the growth of spring hockey has made a mellower part of my business year nice and busy making up jerseys, toques, track suits, caps, hoodies, etc. for all these teams.

this is what one team has (that i know of... i'm sure there's stuff i'm missing)
- home & away jerseys with full embroidered front logos, 2 colour twill numbers on the sleeves and back, twill names on namebars
- personalized pant shells
- matching socks
- something that goes over their skates so they match
- custom matching gloves and helmets
- 2 tracksuits per kid
- matching running shoes
- matching earphones for ipods
- matching skate mats

...and i'm sure there's more.

add to all that the cost of the hockey!!! wow!! that's all i can say!