High-Profile Sexual Abuse Epidemic

[Red Slinger]

I was born in Russia, have family in Russia and have visited Russia. Those statistics seem to align with my experience with modern Russian culture. "New Russians" are trash, by and large.

[Locke]

Originally Posted by OMG!WTF!

Then look at the 200% increase in violence against homosexuals since Putin's law in 2013. Look at the things Putin says. There's a number of ways to decipher the truth. You'd have to be managing a fake news campaign of epic proportions to think Russians have been given a bad rap here.

Hmm....its almost like its an oppressive regime that mandates punishment to those who dont conform.

But that couldnt be true, right? They must all genuinely hate homosexuals. Its the only answer.

Other than the 'oppressive regime' answer.

[northcrunk]

Originally Posted by OMG!WTF!

Then look at the 200% increase in violence against homosexuals since Putin's law in 2013. Look at the things Putin says. There's a number of ways to decipher the truth. You'd have to be managing a fake news campaign of epic proportions to think Russians have been given a bad rap here.

Where is the data that shows a 200% increase in violence against homosexuals?

Of course it's obvious that the Russian state is not in favour of homosexuality being promoted but is it illegal in Russia like it is in Saudi Arabia?

[iggy_oi]

Originally Posted by Hemi-Cuda

Your personal experiences do not trump statistical facts. The vast majority of Russia's population are against equal rights for LGBT. Putin's approval numbers are also at incredibly high numbers, indicating most people don't disagree with his stance that violence against gays is ok. That's why I say that the culture in today's Russia is garbage, and they deserve zero respect on the international stage

I’m gonna steal a line from Obama for this one.

Saddam Hussein had a 90% approval rating before being overthrown from power. Approval ratings in countries where the state controls the media are probably not the most solid foundation to base an argument on.

I agree Putin’s views on the matter are awful, and frankly sad. But that has nothing to do with the Russian people, why should it be held against them? Russia’s “democratic” process does not provide much of a platform for Putin to be removed from power if voters don’t approve of his actions.

[rubecube]

Originally Posted by Locke

Hmm....its almost like its an oppressive regime that mandates punishment to those who dont conform.

But that couldnt be true, right? They must all genuinely hate homosexuals. Its the only answer.

Other than the 'oppressive regime' answer.

Seriously, we're back to ignoring the statistics again? Hate crimes against homosexuals have been escalating at an alarming rate in Russia for several years now. This isn't just state-sponsored violence against gays, it's also private citizens committing horrific acts while the government looks the other way.

[rubecube]

Originally Posted by iggy_oi

I’m gonna steal a line from Obama for this one.

Saddam Hussein had a 90% approval rating before being overthrown from power. Approval ratings in countries where the state controls the media are probably not the most solid foundation to base an argument on.

I agree Putin’s views on the matter are awful, and frankly sad. But that has nothing to do with the Russian people, why should it be held against them? Russia’s “democratic” process does not provide much of a platform for Putin to be removed from power if voters don’t approve of his actions.

It isn't just Russian sources that note Putin's popularity though. He is very, very popular in Russia.

[OMG!WTF!]

Originally Posted by northcrunk

Where is the data that shows a 200% increase in violence against homosexuals?

Of course it's obvious that the Russian state is not in favour of homosexuality being promoted but is it illegal in Russia like it is in Saudi Arabia?

Actually that's just the number of sentences handed down by courts for crimes against lgbtq members since 2010. The real number is certainly much more given the atmosphere of tolerance towards these crimes.

You are right though. It's not illegal. Russia is totally better than Saudi Arabia.

[Hemi-Cuda]

Originally Posted by iggy_oi

I’m gonna steal a line from Obama for this one.

Saddam Hussein had a 90% approval rating before being overthrown from power. Approval ratings in countries where the state controls the media are probably not the most solid foundation to base an argument on.

I agree Putin’s views on the matter are awful, and frankly sad. But that has nothing to do with the Russian people, why should it be held against them? Russia’s “democratic” process does not provide much of a platform for Putin to be removed from power if voters don’t approve of his actions.

Except that independent researchers concluded that while Putin's approval numbers are inflated, it's not by much, meaning his popularity is genuinely high across the country

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/...lar-in-russia/

[Locke]

Originally Posted by rubecube

Seriously, we're back to ignoring the statistics again? Hate crimes against homosexuals have been escalating at an alarming rate in Russia for several years now. This isn't just state-sponsored violence against gays, it's also private citizens committing horrific acts while the government looks the other way.

The Government isnt looking the other way, they're the ones pressuring them into doing it.

The thing is, in Russia 'The Government' is not synonymous with 'The People.'

But its a well known fact that people will do what those in authority tell them to.

You're saying that this is what the people believe, but in this case they're believing whatever they're told to believe so that they dont get in trouble.

[rubecube]

Originally Posted by Locke

The Government isnt looking the other way, they're the ones pressuring them into doing it.

The thing is, in Russia 'The Government' is not synonymous with 'The People.'

But its a well known fact that people will do what those in authority tell them to.

You're saying that this is what the people believe, but in this case they're believing whatever they're told to believe so that they dont get in trouble.

Sorry, the government is telling groups of Russian men to gang up and sodomize gay men with broken bottles and kill them? Can you point me to that specific edict?

The stats I posted in regards to Russian attitudes towards homosexuals were pulled from Pew research polls. Are you suggesting that the 75% of Russians who said they don't believe gays should be accepted by society answered that way because Putin told them to?

[habernac]

Do we need a "it sucks to be a gay person in Russia" thread? this one's getting derailed.

[iggy_oi]

Originally Posted by Hemi-Cuda

Except that independent researchers concluded that while Putin's approval numbers are inflated, it's not by much, meaning his popularity is genuinely high across the country

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/...lar-in-russia/

That’s fair enough, although I’m pretty skeptical about their “conclusion”. In any event I still don’t believe their approval of Putin earns them all the labeling of homophobic. That isn’t to say there aren’t any, or that even a majority of them aren’t. It’s just a very slippery slope when people start labelling people in such a manner as you did.

When you make a statement that “the vast majority of Russia’s population are against equal rights for LGTB” it leaves very little room for error. You are either right and the vast majority of them are what you say, or it is not factually accurate and at that point you are both wrong and complicit in actions that are as equally prejudice to the ones you accuse them of. Just try to consider that before you make those kinds of comments.

[Russic]

I actually find this to be a breath of fresh air after realizing my favourite entertainers are either rapists or addicted to exposing themselves. This thread keeps me guessing, and I like that.

[rubecube]

Originally Posted by iggy_oi

When you make a statement that “the vast majority of Russia’s population are against equal rights for LGTB” it leaves very little room for error. You are either right and the vast majority of them are what you say, or it is not factually accurate and at that point you are both wrong and complicit in actions that are as equally prejudice to the ones you accuse them of. Just try to consider that before you make those kinds of comments.

Is 85% enough to qualify as a vast majority?

[iggy_oi]

Originally Posted by rubecube

Is 85% enough to qualify as a vast majority?

Yes, but them supporting Putin does not mean they all oppose LGTB having equal rights. A lot of Black people voted for trump, that doesn’t mean they consider the KKK to be “fine people”

[rubecube]

Originally Posted by iggy_oi

Yes, but them supporting Putin does not mean they all oppose LGTB having equal rights. A lot of Black people voted for trump, that doesn’t mean they consider the KKK to be “fine people”

No, this is the percentage of people who directly said they don't support gay marriage. The percentage of people who believed they don't think gays should be accepted by society was 74% and is actually up from where it was a decade about by almost 15%.

[Oling_Roachinen]

Maybe we could get a thread split?

And it's not even split by age like many progressing countries.

For example, in South Korea of those over 50+ only 16% believe that homosexuality should be acceptable. A pitiful number. But 71% of 18-29 year old South Koreans believe that it should be. You can see a clear shift for the better in a lot of places that were relatively recently less tolerant.

But Russia is different. Only 21% of 18-29 year olds, as of the Pew 2013 research, believe it should be acceptable. Even compared to China's 32% of the same age group it's significantly less. And really there's been more vocal anti-LGBT sentiment in Russia since 2013.

https://themoscowtimes.com/articles/...cade-ago-48066
From the Moscow Times:
3% of Russian respondents said LGBT people should be able to bring up children.
8% of Russian respondents believed that gay marriage should be legal. A drop from 14% in 2005.
41% of Russian respondents believed that homosexuals should be persecuted by the police.

https://themoscowtimes.com/news/most...zed-poll-50193
In another poll:

21 percent of people want to see LGBT people "liquidated," and another 37 percent advocate separating them from society, the poll found.

More than half of the Russians who took the poll wanted to remove LGBT from society, 21% wanted to 'liquidate" them in 2015, up significantly from a 2013 poll by the Levada Center. Which of course has been labelled as a spy and foreign agent because it's been posting polls that Putin isn't quite as beloved as other polls say despite being founded as a Russian independent research organization.

[81MC]

Would it be incorrect to suggest the anti-homosexual population probably out numbers the pro-homosexual rights, globally? I really have no idea, but given how recent the social/legal acceptance of it has been in the 'developed' world, and the amount of countries where it is not legal or punished, Im curious.
Let's not forget, it was in 2005 Canada actually 'legally' accepted gay marriages, and we were one of the very few. I'd bet many of our fathers/grand parents were pretty firmly opposed to the notion.
Not saying not endorsing gay marriages is the equivalent of perpetrating violence, but if we start calling societies 'garbage' based on their views and beliefs, that is an awful lot of population we're writing off...which maybe isn't so bad after all?

[OMG!WTF!]

Originally Posted by rubecube

No, this is the percentage of people who directly said they don't support gay marriage. The percentage of people who believed they don't think gays should be accepted by society was 74% and is actually up from where it was a decade about by almost 15%.

It's even more pronounced when you consider likely 5% of the population is actually LGBTQ.

[Oling_Roachinen]

Originally Posted by 81MC

but if we start calling societies 'garbage' based on their views and beliefs

I don't know, views and beliefs seem like a pretty good reason to label a society to me.

When an independent Russian organization is doing a poll indicating that at best 3% of Russians believe in equal rights for the LGBT community, while 21% want to kill them altogether at what point can we judge that society?

It's also got to be given context, the world has progressed. We shouldn't completely compare one generation to another. You can go back far enough and any society is pretty much trash in comparison to progressive countries now. But you can see the progress, women voting, interracial marriage, gay marriage, for the most part you can see progress even if terrible things were (are) happening in that society. Heck, a lot of people on this board were alive when the Alberta Eugenics Board existed. Pretty much 99% of CP was alive when the last Residential School existed. Russia is a developing nation, but it's not progressing like others have. It's deteriorating, it's getting worse when it comes to LGBT acceptance by both the laws and the societal values.

They know of the progress the west has had. They aren't isolated. They see that LGBT, women and religious people are getting equal rights in other places in the world...and they spit on it.