The trials and tribulations of Glen Gulutzan

[Mr.Coffee]

Originally Posted by Textcritic

I think that says it all right there: there are a handful of posters on this board who seem to be unhappy with Gulutzan regardless of happenings or the outcome. It is why he gets singled out after every loss, and why the seemingly most benign decisions are exaggerated beyond proportion to the results.

this is just unfair though. First of all, in your opinion the decisions are benign but are they? You say in proportion to the results but the whole basis of the argument is that the results could be even better. A lot of the complaints lobbied are regarding his player selection in key times in the game. There's validity to the opinion that the Flames are where they are, this 7-2-1 in their last 10, or seemingly performing well because of the players and in spite of the coach. There's validity in saying, that with the excellent roster Treliving has put together, with a better coach they could be better. There's validity to the argument that Gulutzan makes head scratching decisions on a frequent basis.

I think that Gulutzan is most likely an excellent tactician, but a horrible motivator. He doesn't emote at all. He does think the game well. He should be an assistant coach. And lots of fans or players react differently to different styles of leadership. So to just say that all of these fans are wrong and blowing things out of proportion isn't quite right, because he is basically a mannequin back there. Does that make sense all the time? I'm sorry but no, that's such bs. Sometimes human beings need emotion to rally around, and Gulutzan is terrible at that. Plus combined with bizarre player selection in key times during the game, people have some legitimate questions. Does that mean that Gulutzan's strategies or playbook are flawed though? No, this is probably where he excels.

But I don't think it's fair to just constantly come to his defense about everything, because he does make a lot of absurd calls.

[DazzlinDino]

Originally Posted by Roof-Daddy

Brodie had full possession of the puck behind our net in a 3 on 3 situation.

They weren't, nor should have been, thinking about defense in that scenario. They were trying to get open so as to receive a break out pass in order to hopefully create an odd man rush and score the game winning goal.

Had a chance to look at the play. I take my comments back you are right! I am not sure how Brodie messed that one up.

[Gaskal]

Originally Posted by DazzlinDino

Had a chance to look at the play. I take my comments back you are right! I am not sure how Brodie messed that one up.

The puck didn't seem to hop or bounce either. It seemed to somehow slip under the curve of his blade.


It was probably the Game 4 Elliott goal physics all over again. Just a hundred to one shot it happens.

[Textcritic]

Originally Posted by Mr.Coffee

this is just unfair though. First of all, in your opinion the decisions are benign but are they? You say in proportion to the results but the whole basis of the argument is that the results could be even better. A lot of the complaints lobbied are regarding his player selection in key times in the game. There's validity to the opinion that the Flames are where they are, this 7-2-1 in their last 10, or seemingly performing well because of the players and in spite of the coach...

Is there? I am not convinced. It’s an opinion, sure, but do any of us have good enough of a grasp on the intricacies of NHL head coaching and the condition of the room to make a valid argument for how and why another coach would be better? The numbers over that stretch are all quite good. Defensive coverage needs improvement, but I don’t see any clear and obvious changes that need to occur for that to happen. I would say that the results in combination with the underlying numbers show rather powerfully that Gulutzan is doing his job well.

There's validity in saying, that with the excellent roster Treliving has put together, with a better coach they could be better...

Sorry, but this is still conjecture.

There's validity to the argument that Gulutzan makes head scratching decisions on a frequent basis.

I agree, but then it is very difficult to draw from this a conclusion that another coach making different player-selection decisions will get better results. In the midst of a 7-2-1 run that sees the Flames playing well in nearly all areas, I maintain that it is difficult to find much fault with the performance of the coach. Again, the vast majority of complaints about Gulutzan stem from non-quantifiable impressions with very little basis in the actual data and results.

I think that Gulutzan is most likely an excellent tactician, but a horrible motivator. He doesn't emote at all. He does think the game well. He should be an assistant coach...

This is yet another prime example of precisely what I am getting at. You don’t know Gulutzan, nor do you know any of the players. You have an idea about what makes a successful NHL coach, but without ever having played hockey for a NHL coach—to say nothing of playing for MANY NHL coaches, your opinion strikes me as not especially relevant. More to the point, the fact that Gulutzan reportedly commands an enormous amount of respect from his peers and his charges, I would say that you are almost certainly wrong about this.

And lots of fans or players react differently to different styles of leadership. So to just say that all of these fans are wrong and blowing things out of proportion isn't quite right, because he is basically a mannequin back there...

I’m sorry, but yes, it is. You are again projecting from your own flawed intuition about what makes a “good” or “bad” or “average” coach. There is not just one way to do the job, and Gulutzan’s results thus far suggest he is pretty good at doing it.

Does that make sense all the time? I'm sorry but no, that's such bs. Sometimes human beings need emotion to rally around, and Gulutzan is terrible at that...

I don’t believe that you know this one way or the other.

Plus combined with bizarre player selection in key times during the game, people have some legitimate questions. Does that mean that Gulutzan's strategies or playbook are flawed though? No, this is probably where he excels.



But I don't think it's fair to just constantly come to his defense about everything, because he does make a lot of absurd calls.

There is a huge difference between puzzling over unusual decisions made by the coach, and then drawing from these the conclusion that he is marginal at his job in the face of excellent results. I am not defending Gulutzan so much as I am defending the notion that he—like ANY OTHER NHL COACH—will make questionable choices occasionally, will lose games from time to time, and is not flawless in the execution of his job. The standard a few posters seem to have if him is that he should be perfect, and that is ridiculous.

[Frank MetaMusil]

Textcritic wall of text

So basically it boils down to none of us are qualified to point out flaws with any of Flames management or coaching. Great for discussion.

There are a good number of factors which can't be laid at the feet of Gulutzan. Fine. You just sitting there saying "No" doesn't change the outcomes for him either though. To date, his list of accomplishments is not a long one. That's a valid statement to make.

I'd like to see the Flames actually beat the Oilers again for once thanks. This coach is now 0-5 by that metric.

[Textcritic]

Originally Posted by Frank MetaMusil

So basically it boils down to none of us are qualified to point out flaws with any of Flames management or coaching. Great for discussion...

You conveniently missed the point:

Originally Posted by Textcritic

...There is a huge difference between puzzling over unusual decisions made by the coach, and then drawing from these the conclusion that he is marginal at his job in the face of excellent results. I am not defending Gulutzan so much as I am defending the notion that he—like ANY OTHER NHL COACH—will make questionable choices occasionally, will lose games from time to time, and is not flawless in the execution of his job. The standard a few posters seem to have if him is that he should be perfect, and that is ridiculous.

Originally Posted by Frank MetaMusil

I'd like to see the Flames actually beat the Oilers again for once thanks. This coach is now 0-5 by that metric.

Wouldn't we all? But losing five games against the Oilers on its own is not the actor by which the coach should be fired.

Like I said: I have no dispute with valid criticism. I have a dispute with those who exaggerate the problems and call for the coach to be replaced after every loss when the team is in a dead heat for the division lead, and in the midst of a 7-2-1 tear.

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by Frank MetaMusil

I'd like to see the Flames actually beat the Oilers again for once thanks. This coach is now 0-5 by that metric.

How is he on the Anaheim metric?

[Wyguy]

I think we can all agree, our D are playing like ####.

How much of this is because they just are ####, or is it on GG?

[Otto-matic]

This reminds me of all the hype the flames got when we aquired Bouwmeester. Best D in the League!

Garbage turn overs. GG needs to change up all the pairings. Hamilton stinks, Brodie/Hammer isn't working, - pop Stone up with Brodie.

[Wyguy]

Like honestly, I just came from an OHL game, and they made less boneheaded mistakes.

Something needs to be done soon.

[Bawbag]

Look at the stars fans stand up for thier team.

Ours can't wait to get the #### out of the dome

They don't even stand up when we score

[N-E-B]

Originally Posted by Bawbag

Look at the stars fans stand up for thier team.

Ours can't wait to get the #### out of the dome

They don't even stand up when we score

Time to log off for the night. Not only is this post ridiculous, but it's not even in the right thread.

[SportsJunky]

That was a fun game. Gulutzan has them playing an entertaining style of hockey right now.

[crapshoot]

Maybe start shortening the bench to close out games Glen.

[Strange Brew]

How much blame can the coach take when only 3 forwards are playing well right now (better than well actually) and the “best D on paper” are turnover machines.

[Erick Estrada]

Originally Posted by Strange Brew

How much blame can the coach take when only 3 forwards are playing well right now (better than well actually) and the “best D on paper” are turnover machines.

Yeah but that's the case for a lot of teams and the forwards that are going are getting a lot of goals. When you score four goals you should win more games than not. This team needs to score 5+ goals nightly in front of this blue line.

[Electricprez]

Originally Posted by N-E-B

Time to log off for the night. Not only is this post ridiculous, but it's not even in the right thread.

It's hyperbole on that standing (straight up wrong), but I do have to agree on the "can't wait to get out": it is super sad to watch Flames fans streaming out of the building during the last 3 minutes when the Flames are up and about to win. FFS, there was even a mass exodus during the Blues game, and it was one of the hardest fought and most exciting I'd been to in ages.

There could definitely be a little/lot more excitement and support in the dome most nights.

[dieHARDflameZ]

Originally Posted by Strange Brew

How much blame can the coach take when only 3 forwards are playing well right now (better than well actually) and the “best D on paper” are turnover machines.

This.

[jayswin]

Originally Posted by Strange Brew

How much blame can the coach take when only 3 forwards are playing well right now (better than well actually) and the “best D on paper” are turnover machines.

The third line is actually playing quite well, imo. But like Brad Treliving would say it's the do it league.

[Toonage]

I feel like the Flames are faced with 2 choices.
1) Keep Gulutzan but make personnel changes to bring in players that can adapt to his plan.
2) Recognize the talent you have and find a coaching staff that can adapt to them