New Flames Arena - The CP Historical Record

[Barnes]

I created this thread to outline the historical record of public comments made by Ken King and subsequently discussed by CP members on the forum. I searched through the various New Arena threads, season ticket holder event threads, and radio interview threads for information linked to and recap'd by various members throughout the years staring in 2006 all the way up to the public announcement of CalgaryNEXT.

It probably isn't exhaustive but I think it is extensive. A number of the early linked articles are no longer available and I only included them if the appeared to be directly quoted. I put in as many links as I could but for the most part, I just reference when and who did the recapping.

It will be posted in multiple posts. It will be organized by 'era' with a summary at the the top. The purpose is to try and understand and discuss how the hell we got to where we are today.

First up:
The Post Cup Run/New CBA era.

[Barnes]

Flames look to increase revenue generation and build on the popularity of the Cup run and stability of the new CBA. A decision must be made regarding a new building vs. Saddledome Renovations.

04-13-2006
Quote of King interview in the Herald by Canada 02

"We need a better building, that reflects the nature of our city, one that's capable of generating revenue," said King.
The new facility, which doesn't have a funding plan in place, would be comparable to some of the major new arenas now being built in the U.S. at a cost of $200 million to $500 million.
King said the Flames are considering other options, including building on the edge of the city or retrofitting the 'Dome. But he admitted neither are as financially feasible as building on the Stampede grounds.
The NHL team could continue to play in the 'Dome while the new facility is being built. Once it's finished, the Flames would move in and the Saddledome could face demolition.

08-22-2006
Recap of King interview on the Fan by Canada 02 and Browna

Renovations discussion is just to refute the concept (my interpretation of King's words)
New building will most likely be on the Stampede grounds
More suites - could easily sell 3x more than the current 70+ suites
better access, eggress
more washrooms, bigger concourse
separate practice facility
expanded round-up centre/convention facility

KK will do due dilligence in a rought assesment of the costs associated with proper renovations, both as a smart businessman, and also, to have something concrete in hand to be able to show the stakeholders and fans in trying to sell on the new building.

(also, he expects to hear back from contractors in the new year)

01-30-2007
Recap of King interview on the Fan by anyonebutedmonton

He said they were exploring the oppurtunity to either reno the current dome or build a new one but he favors the building a new venue. He also said that the flames grill will open in march.

He said that the decision on the dome will be made by the end of the first quarter when he will give his recomendations to the owners.

[Barnes]

It is decided. We’re getting a new Arena. The Saddledome's fate is sealed. 2007-2010

03-20-2007
Recap of Fan 960 interview by SpitFire40

Says a new building trumps retrofitting econimically, it's not 100% done or anything but they are definetely taking the steps to getting a new building in Calgary.

City is not on for finances at all but will help in securing a site.

20,000 seats are the target

Downtown location most likely, wants to stay on the Stampede Grounds and mentions the Big 4 building as where it'll be, closer to train line.

Offered looks at other downtown locations, and even suburban locations.

06-03-2007
Sun Article Kenn King quote posted by Flame On

Really, the big issue is can you depend on construction costs these days, in terms of the estimate for what it takes to be built. And then can you make it an economically responsible and viable project?

06-05-2007
STH Session - Incenerator

Site: Current Big Four Building's site is the front runner and most likely home of the new building.

Estimated Timeline: 5 years from the day they have firm plans in place. i.e. about 7 years from now in real timeline, 'Dome lease is up 2014, and they could renew, but obviously would like to move by then.

Seating: will have more luxury suites to alleviate the lengthy waiting list for suites. Cheap seats will still be there, just don't expect them to be at today's prices. (amazingly some people actually expect the Flames would be immune to inflation and increased cost from building the new arena.)

08-23-2007
Cowperson Posts Sun Article about new arena.
http://slam.canoe.com/Slam/Columnist...40643-sun.html

King said the Flames owners "have ideas" regarding financing but wouldn't divulge any of them.

How much the provincial government would chip in, if any at all, is anybody's guess. But with both Edmonton and Calgary hankering for a new home, rest assured anything done for one would have to be duplicated for the other.

At this point, King said they don't have a set-in-stone idea what a new building would look like. Ideally, it would be roughly the same size in terms of capacity -- 19,000-plus -- and be more functional for hosting other events, especially concerts.

....

"We have two or three ideas and concepts we're working on," King said.

09-02-2007
Ken King posted on CP under the FlamesCentral Account and answered a question from Bobblehead

Ahh, the new building. One of my favourite subjects. I want to have your team win the Stanley Cup and build an new building and ride of into the sunset, hopefully without falling off my horse. Looking at several architectural plans right now. Still planned to be on Stampede Grounds. Hard to conceive before the end of our current lease which is 2014 but if a break maybe sooner. Most seem on side. Some love the Dome but appreciate it is aging. Others feel can't ever move but need to look after the future. don't need more seats but need building that works bette for fans and gives us some revenue opportunities. KK

https://forum.calgarypuck.com/showth...highlight=king

05-21-2008
T@T quotes a Sun Article

"It's an issue we have not resolved. We know where we can put a building and we know what it can look like. We know lots of things. We do not have an answer to the financing question."

05-26-2008
STH Session recapped by Rhettzky and Troutman

-New dome will most likely be funded by season ticket holders. City taxes will likely not pay for any of it, provincial and federal dollars may or may not come into play.

New Building will be 300 yards away or somewhere downtown - lease is up in 2014, so construction would have to start in 18 months

07-02-2009
Recap of Fan 960 interview by User Name

(New)- dome will be done in the next few years
- 2 goals, first is SC, second is new dome.
- old dome will be "decomissioned" for its current use...

[Barnes]

The Everything is on schedule and we won't be using public money era: 2010 - The Stampeders Purchase

06-09-2010
STH Session Recap by canary

new arena still 3-5 yrs away. Will be downtown. Will be technically superb. Want's LRT basically adjoined to it.
-Saddledome most likely torn down.

06-28-2010
STH Session - slots881

-New building is 2-4 years away, will be downtown but they have looked at an alternate downtown location which is not on the Stampede grounds but is on the c-train line

-Building will be structurally modern, don’t remember the exact term Ken always used but basically it will be set up so that movement to and from concessions and seats will be much easier

-Two models for the new building will be Columbus and Minnesota arenas

-There won’t be more seats in the new building, KK believes you can have too many seats

-Old Saddledome will be torn down, new building will not look the same

12-28-2010
STH Session recap by getbak

The new arena is still moving forward on schedule

rohara66

the new arena is close to going public

06-22-2011
Harley Hotchkiss passes away

07-17-2011
STH Session recap by username

- They are basically right where Edmonton is in terms of planning but don't publicize it.
- Have 3 sites selected that they need to choose from. 2 are urban, 1 a little more suburban.
- Will NOT be using tax payers dollars to pay for it.
- Will be a first class arena and they are going to take care of all the problems with the current saddledome.
- Targeting a completion in 3 - 5 years.

10-26-2011
Calgary Herald article
http://calgaryherald.com/news/local-...edmonton-arena

“We have had several architectural looks created for our new building,” King said. “We have been in contact and consultation with several major architectural and construction firms in Calgary and have been working on them.
“Requests for proposals will be going out in the next three or four months.
“We have had informal discussions, and I want to stress, informal discussions at all government levels, that’s the provincial government, the federal government and the city.”

“While we’ve identified the two sites and we believe them to be suitable and available and we’ve talked to the city, there’s much, much more work to be done,” said King, who added that a land agreement is not yet in place.

02-09-2012
CP thread created by ThisYear about a phone survey

All the questions discussed were with regards to the new arena plans. There were several different questions with regards to location having an entertainment district etc. However, I though couple of the questions rubbed me the wrong way and wanted to get your opinion on it;

“Would you still support the of a new arena if the Flames threatened to move?”

“Would you support the idea if the ownership guaranteed the organization would stay until the new arenas life?”

The other basic questions included;
Would you support the idea of city financing the arena and having shares in it with the rest of the owners?
Is the city due for a new entertainment district?
How do you compare the Saddeldome to Rogers Arena and other arenas in the NHL?
What are the biggest problems in the Dome …. Washroom, parking, sound system, view point etc.

[Barnes]

The Great Arena Reset Era: Stampeders Purchase - West Village rumblings.

03-29-2012
Flames buy majority stake in Stampeders

08-11-2012
Calgary Herald article
http://www.calgaryherald.com/sports/...420/story.html

One possibility floated on Twitter Friday describes a combined arena/stadium near the Mewata armoury with commercial space, possibly for restaurants, bars or a hotel.
King declined to comment. “I’m not going to affirm or deny any speculation on possible sites,” he said. “Let me say that what we’re thinking about could be one of the defining projects in our city for many decades to come, but if discussed prematurely would just be totally unhelpful to all the stakeholders involved.”

01-27-2013
Ron MacLean comments on HNIC that the Flames will be releasing their plans for a downtown arena in 3 to 4 months.

Metro News article
http://www.metronews.ca/news/calgary...s-to-them.html

Ald. Ray Jones, council’s representative on the Saddledome Foundation board, said Sunday he hadn’t heard of any new arena plans and the Flames have not made any requests to the city to that effect.
If such a proposal were to include a request for financial involvement from the city, Jones said the matter should be put to the citizens of Calgary.
“I would love to do it with a plebiscite,” he said. “Let the people of the city decide: Do you want your taxpayer dollars spent on this?”

Ald. Andre Chabot doubted a plebiscite would be necessary, noting polls within the last few years have shown Calgarians are overwhelmingly opposed to putting tax dollars towards a new arena.
“I think the general public is of the opinion that it’s a fairly lucrative industry – certainly insofar as the players and the kind of money they’re making#– and they don’t feel that they should be contributing to their profitability,” Chabot said.
Ald. Gord Lowe said that sentiment is reflected around the council table.
“As far as I know there is precisely no appetite in council to put public money into a private venture,” he said.

The Calgary Flames told Metro on Sunday the club had no immediate comment on the matter.

02-02-2013
STH Session recap by rage2

was at a STH appreciation thing last night, where Ken King did a small Q&A before the game. Someone asked about the new arena, and the answer was it's been in the works for the last 4 years, and we'll hear more late fall.

02-02-2013
A comment from Sidney Crosby’s Hat that I laughed at.

I'd be very surprised if any plans were announced ahead of the October civic election. Nothing puts you in City Hall's bad books more than creating an "election issue" for them.

[Barnes]

CalgaryNEXT or Bust

06-19-2013
Bruce Dowbiggin Tweets

bruce dowbiggin (@dowbboy)
2013-06-19 3:54 PM
If NHL final ends by this weekend expect Flames to announce arena plans shortly after. Not waiting for mayor's election. Location still TBF.

bruce dowbiggin (@dowbboy)
2013-06-19 3:56 PM
Could be East Village or area on west Bow Trail. Box holders have been told they'll have first dibs on new locations.

This is the point where we all started to discuss the West Village as the location with a football stadium component. Two years later CalgaryNEXT is presented

01-30-2014
Herald article regarding leaked Populous rendering

“We’ve been working for years on this,’’ said King. “So we’re closer to some of the decisions of what we want. There’s a process of what do you want to build, then there’s a process of how do you build it, when do you build and where do you build it.
“We are not ready for that. At some point we will be. Sooner than later, I think. But I don’t want a death watch ... Is it next week or next month? When?
“We have exciting, unbelievably ambitious desires with this project that we hope come to fruition. We still have some hurdles to
“So the speculation has always existed. We’re working on it. We’ve been working on it a long time. And when we’re ready to unleash it on the world, we will.’’

10-24-2014
Qwerty posts a discussion he/she had with Ken King at a Top Shelf Experience dinner

- They have the location decided. He could not disclose the location or state whether the Stampede will be involved.
- The project is going to be a billion dollar project.
- The new 'plan' is to release the information in the next 2 months (hoped before the new year).
- It is 'more then an area'. He is confident no one will be disappointed with it.
- You can expect the process to take 1 year for permits, 3 year construction. So as we already know it will be 5 years to completion.
- He stated there is no opposition to what is going to happen to the old arena as it will be 40+ yrs old come completion. We took this to mean it will be demolished which makes the most sense.

11-24-2014
STH Reception recap by Badgers Nose

- Tuesday's Herald will have an article about the new area, nothing official but it might have some new info.
- KK hinted the new stadium would have a dome to keep Stamp fans warm.
- They want it 'Downtown' as opposed to saying it 'will be' downtown.

02-03-2015
STH Reception recap by surfer guy

Last week I was in attendance to a STH reception and Ken King said they were going to the city in February. Take it for what it is worth.

03-05-2015
Recap of Ken King on 95.9 by JBR

Downtown location
Bigger than an arena project
Mayor will see it first. Hinted this is imminent
Less than a few weeks away from making it pubic

03-05-2015
Herald Article featuring yet another promise of a couple of weeks
http://calgaryherald.com/news/local-...downtown-arena

“Before any of your listeners have conniptions, when you see our project, people are just going to love it. And we’re not going to sneak in here and steal money from the city,” King told the radio hosts.

City councillors have pre-emptively narrowed his options further.
The 15 members are almost uniformly#opposed to redirecting scarce infrastructure dollars at a professional sports#facility, though other options may be on the table.
“The best option perhaps is just going to be making land available, but no dollars. Because there are no dollars,” said Coun. Ward Sutherland, vice-chair of council’s priorities and finance committee.

March 2015
Herald article with some of the Flames visions for the unannounced project
http://calgaryherald.com/news/local-...r-sports-house

King shared his plans with Nenshi in mid-March, then the mayor relayed it to council in a closed-door session Monday evening, multiple sources have confirmed. But there’s still no formal proposal submitted to council, and it’s unclear when King will finally reveal the ambitious concept to the public, though he did say a month ago the release was a “couple of weeks” away.

04-08-2015
STH Reception recap by get bak

At the Fan Forum on Monday, King didn't say much about the arena project, and nothing new about it. He did repeat what he has said before that there won't be big arguments over public money.

04-25-2015
http://www.cbc.ca/video/news/audiopl...pid=2665082483
Ken King acknowledges West Village and says they will wait til the playoffs and provincial election are over until they announce anything

08-19-2015
CalgaryNEXT is Presented

[iggy_oi]

[greyshep]

I dont see the exact quote in here, but I see pieces of it...

Am I imagining this?...
Where is the quotes from King where he stated something like the following:

"We wont be doing this in the public eye like Edmonton has. Essentially we will bring out our signed deal without all the threats and rhetoric that was thrown around up North"

Thats the one that keeps ringing in my head since the Flames stomped away from negotiations like a spoiled child.

[the-rasta-masta]

Ken King has been lying to us for nearly 12 years!

[Leeman4Gilmour]

Impressive bit of research, thank you. It's even harder to support King and CSEC after reading that. They started off this process wanting less than what the City of Calgary is offering now and essentially in the exact same spot the City has proposed.

[Barnes]

Originally Posted by greyshep

I dont see the exact quote in here, but I see pieces of it...

Am I imagining this?...
Where is the quotes from King where he stated something like the following:

"We wont be doing this in the public eye like Edmonton has. Essentially we will bring out our signed deal without all the threats and rhetoric that was thrown around up North"

Thats the one that keeps ringing in my head since the Flames stomped away from negotiations like a spoiled child.

I remember it too but couldn't find an instance where he actually said it.

[Cecil Terwilliger]

Originally Posted by greyshep

I dont see the exact quote in here, but I see pieces of it...

Am I imagining this?...
Where is the quotes from King where he stated something like the following:

"We wont be doing this in the public eye like Edmonton has. Essentially we will bring out our signed deal without all the threats and rhetoric that was thrown around up North"

Thats the one that keeps ringing in my head since the Flames stomped away from negotiations like a spoiled child.

Originally Posted by Barnes

I remember it too but couldn't find an instance where he actually said it.

As posted by getbak in the other arena thread. It is from a STH meeting back in 2011. Not sure if there is any record in the media of him saying it but I'm pretty confident in the accuracy of getbak's summary of his comments.

Originally Posted by getbak

I'd think it'll be northeast of the Casino, just south of the train tracks. My guess is that the front door will be close to the corner of 11th Ave and 4th St. This will get them close to the Stampede grounds, without being on the grounds and needing to deal with the Stampede Board on issues.

The Stampede's expansion plans involve building an entertainment district along 4th Street south of 12th Avenue, so that location would be the perfect feeder into this new "Stampede Trail" development and the Casino (which is again under the Stampede Board's control). This location would also act as a good spur to the development of the East Village area north of the tracks because of all the new foot traffic that would be in the area (which is a good selling point from the Flames perspective when they inevitably ask the City for assistance).

Once the 4th Street Tunnel is finished, it will have pretty good access from both the north and south. In fact, people taking the NE/West and NW C-Trains would probably have a shorter walk from City Hall station than from Victoria Park (and if they can build some covered +15s along the way, it wouldn't be a bad walk at all). It would also eliminate the need for people to transfer to the south leg to go one station.

Assuming they can connect the +15 that goes through the new part of the BMO Centre and the Casino, the walk from Victoria Park would only be slightly longer than the walk from Victoria Park to the Saddledome.

Also, the plans for the future SE leg of the CTrain calls for a station near 10th Ave and 4th St, so those people would be able to go straight from the station into the building.


Another thing to note that King mentioned at the STH luncheon is that the team does not plan to go to the government for funding of the arena. All he said is that they will be working with the City on zoning and land-rights issues and surrounding infrastructure improvements. I think he also mentioned on working on "creative" financing options with the government, but that they won't be doing the same kind of song and dance that we're seeing from Katz in Edmonton.

[Textcritic]

Originally Posted by Barnes

The Great Arena Reset Era: Stampeders Purchase - West Village rumblings.

Nice work, Barnes.

This is really key to me, and I have to wonder if CSEG never did form with the purchase of the Stampeders whether the Flames would now be playing in a new arena.

[Parallex]

Originally Posted by Leeman4Gilmour

Impressive bit of research, thank you. It's even harder to support King and CSEC after reading that. They started off this process wanting less than what the City of Calgary is offering now and essentially in the exact same spot the City has proposed.

The above is so true I have to quote it. What the Flames call "Plan B" is in actually "Plan A"... a better "Plan A" actually since they'll be getting more out of it then they said they were seeking. I wonder if they have buyers remorse over the Stampeders... getting the Stamps is what caused a big shift in their wants away from an arena deal and into the montrosity of CalgaryNext.

Originally Posted by the-rasta-masta

Ken King has been lying to us for nearly 12 years!

Well... 9.5 years. That's the first out and out lie I can spot. The arena will cost above the $$ range they were talking about earlier then that but after 12 years of inflation I can buy that it was true at the time.

[Textcritic]

Originally Posted by Parallex

The above is so true I have to quote it. What the Flames call "Plan B" is in actually "Plan A"... a better "Plan A" actually since they'll be getting more out of it then they said they were seeking. I wonder if they have buyers remorse over the Stampeders... it really seems like getting the Stamps is what caused a big shift in their wants away from an arena deal and into the montrosity of CalgaryNext.

Maybe the idea of CalgaryNEXT was the impetus behind the purchase of the Stampeders in the first place.

I recall at the time that when the acquisition occurred I thought it was the most sensible course of action for both the football team and the Flames. Of course this occurred at a time when CFL football looked like it might be a commodity that was trending upwards, which hasn't really happened.

[Parallex]

Originally Posted by Textcritic

Maybe the idea of CalgaryNEXT was the impetus behind the purchase of the Stampeders in the first place.

Could be. Either way I still wonder if they have buyers remorse over picking up the Stamps all things considered.

[OldDutch]

So my favorite King flub on Friday has to be (paraphrase):

"So we presented the CalgaryNEXT proposal and the city didn't like it. So we asked in October if they could come back to us with a counter proposal. We (the Flames) thought December maybe January if they had to slog through Christmas to return with a counter proposal was reasonable. Now look at us 2 years later and nothing'

So you took 8+ years to show CalgaryNEXT and you wanted a counter proposal back in "reasonable" 90 days.

Thanks Ken.

[Barnes]

Originally Posted by Cecil Terwilliger

As posted by getbak in the other arena thread. It is from a STH meeting back in 2011. Not sure if there is any record in the media of him saying it but I'm pretty confident in the accuracy of getbak's summary of his comments.

Thanks. I didn't include it because it wasn't part of a specific recap from a STH event. To be honest though, I went very quickly through the New Dome needs straws thread.

I have no doubt KK said it if getbak say's he did though.

[ynwa03]

Reading that was like watching a car wreck.

“Before any of your listeners have conniptions, when you see our project, people are just going to love it. And we’re not going to sneak in here and steal money from the city,” King told the radio hosts.

Yikes, yikes, yikes. It's no wonder people have trouble trusting this guy. Everything is literally the opposite of what he has said.

[Parallex]

City taxes will likely not pay for any of it

- Will NOT be using tax payers dollars to pay for it.

“Before any of your listeners have conniptions, when you see our project, people are just going to love it. And we’re not going to sneak in here and steal money from the city,” King told the radio hosts.