2017/2018 Trade Speculation and Rumors

[Flash Walken]

Originally Posted by New Era

Matt Duchene: 572 GP, 174 G, 418P (.73 PPG, .30 GPG)
Jordan Eberle: 507 GP, 165 G, 382P (.75 PPG, .32 GPG)

Arguably, Eberle is the better producer, but only by the smallest of margins. Having said that, Eberle was traded for a middling player on a smaller contract to clear cap space. To me, that is the market for a $6M player with no record of success. You don't put together a massive package for a player like Eberle or Duchene, especially if the guy is holding out or has demands to be traded.

Duchene for Ferland and call it a day, because that's all Duchene is worth.

Some might believe even being selected for a Team Canada olympic roster might be an illustration of success, but surely, being a core contributor to an Olympic Gold Medal roster meets such lofty criteria?

Sean Monahan: 319 GP, 107 G, 217P ( .68 PGP, .33 GPG)

What a scrub! Ferland for Monahan and call it a day!

[dammage79]

Originally Posted by Flames Draft Watcher

Doesn't really matter if we disagree. But it appears scouts disagree which tends to suggest GM's would disagree.

You can take Kylington out, the other three are right there statistically. End of the day, this is semantics over the value of magic beans. Anderson, Fox and Valimaki all out produced Chabot in JR's and in Fox's case put up very comparable numbers in college against stiffer competition. The Q has always been a more offense oriented league so Chabot numbers are likely skewed.

But again, this is all about magic beans. I just like ours equally or more than Ottawas.

[Oling_Roachinen]

If Chabot was a Flames prospect and those four were anyone else's, you would be laughing hysterically at the notion that team had four defensive prospects at the same level.

It would be like a couple years ago if the Flames were rumoured to offer Bennett for someone and a Canucks fan said they had Virtanen, McCann, Shinkaruk, and Gaunce all at the same level.

[dammage79]

Originally Posted by Oling_Roachinen

If Chabot was a Flames prospect and those four were anyone else's, you would be laughing hysterically at the notion that team had four defensive prospects at the same level.

It would be like a couple years ago if the Flames were rumoured to offer Bennett for someone and a Canucks fan said they had Virtanen, McCann, Shinkaruk, and Gaunce all at the same level.

Ill ask you and not anyone else to explain to me the difference between Chabot and the three of Fox, Andersson and Valimaki. Please enlighten me on why he is so much better than these 3 prospects the Flame have. Ive done my homework.

[Oling_Roachinen]

Upside.

It's not about our defensemen, it's about Chabot.

The first defenseman named the WJC tournament MVP and CHL defenseman of the year. He's not some random good defenseman with the tools to be an NHL player, he's got top pairing upside and beyond.

[Flames Draft Watcher]

Originally Posted by dammage79

You can take Kylington out, the other three are right there statistically. End of the day, this is semantics over the value of magic beans. Anderson, Fox and Valimaki all out produced Chabot in JR's and in Fox's case put up very comparable numbers in college against stiffer competition. The Q has always been a more offense oriented league so Chabot numbers are likely skewed.

But again, this is all about magic beans. I just like ours equally or more than Ottawas.

Stats are not a good way of measuring the worth of defensemen prospects. You have to watch the kids. And the scouts think Chabot is a top tier defenseman prospect, one of the best outside the NHL.

Sorry but Chabot is seen as a potential top pairing guy and I don't think any of our guys outside of Valimaki have that potential. I could see Valimaki being seen very soon as in the same light as Chabot but the other guys aren't there IMO.

[bigrangy]

I find it absolutely hilarious that Kylington is the guy that you think has thhe least impressive statline. Statistically he is better than all but a few select defensemen in the last 10 years. He tore Swedish junior leagues apart, produced better than 2018 1st overall contender Dahlin at the same age in the SHL, and has only been outdone in the A by very few guys.

Not to mention that he was his country's best d-man at the WJC just like Chabot was. Kylington gets way too little respect around here.

Fox's numbers are ultra impressive as well and imo more so than Kylington's, but Andersson and Valimaki are not a tier above him like you imply.

[Flames Draft Watcher]

Originally Posted by dammage79

Ill ask you and not anyone else to explain to me the difference between Chabot and the three of Fox, Andersson and Valimaki. Please enlighten me on why he is so much better than these 3 prospects the Flame have. Ive done my homework.

What homework did you do exactly?

Two links have been provided that suggest Chabot is one of the top 5 prospects outside the NHL. I'll take Craig Button's opinion over your homework every day of the week. Button has seen the kid play on numerous occasions. Have you?

Seems like more than a few homer opinions on this matter.

[neo45]

Originally Posted by Oling_Roachinen

Upside.

It's not about our defensemen, it's about Chabot.

The first defenseman named the WJC tournament MVP and CHL defenseman of the year. He's not some random good defenseman with the tools to be an NHL player, he's got top pairing upside and beyond.

Also Chabot has no weakness in his game that could hinder him becoming an NHL player. Andersson has had conditioning issues and Fox is an undersized defenseman. Only reason why they were not first round picks, their production was certainly enough to be drafted that high.

As for Valimaki, if he progresses the next two years the same way Chabot did after his draft year then he will be a similar quality prospect. Certainly not impossible but it has to actually happen before he gets as highly touted as Chabot is among experts.

[GranteedEV]

Originally Posted by dammage79

You can take Kylington out, the other three are right there statistically.

What? You do realize Kylington outproduced Andersson last year right? While being about seven months younger. On the same team in the same league?

THE anti-Kylington bias knows no bounds.

[jayswin]

Originally Posted by GranteedEV

What? You do realize Kylington outproduced Andersson last year right? While being about seven months younger. On the same team in the same league?

THE anti-Kylington bias knows no bounds.

I keep saying it, but if Kylington hadn't have made the jump to mens hockey so early we'd be talking about him in a much more excited light on this forum.

It's the unfortunate reality of not being able to watch prospects for the most part. People appeal to the stats, but don't really know how or want to understand the major difference in what a stat is worth depending on where they're playing.

[dammage79]

Originally Posted by GranteedEV

What? You do realize Kylington outproduced Andersson last year right? While being about seven months younger. On the same team in the same league?

THE anti-Kylington bias knows no bounds.

I know. But if we want to talk about "all around game", His D still needs a bit of work.

Point should be, the anti-Flame prospect bias know no bounds. Some other teams magic beans are better than ours... neat.

[dammage79]

Originally Posted by Oling_Roachinen

Upside.

It's not about our defensemen, it's about Chabot.

The first defenseman named the WJC tournament MVP and CHL defenseman of the year. He's not some random good defenseman with the tools to be an NHL player, he's got top pairing upside and beyond.

A watch and a plaque are the deciding factors? no one here is suggesting Chabot sucks. the conversation here is there is no indication he has more upside than any of the Flame 3 or 4. If you want to believe that some other teams magic beans are better than the our teams, all the power to you. Im not convinced.

[dammage79]

Originally Posted by neo45

Also Chabot has no weakness in his game that could hinder him becoming an NHL player. Andersson has had conditioning issues and Fox is an undersized defenseman. Only reason why they were not first round picks, their production was certainly enough to be drafted that high.

As for Valimaki, if he progresses the next two years the same way Chabot did after his draft year then he will be a similar quality prospect. Certainly not impossible but it has to actually happen before he gets as highly touted as Chabot is among experts.

And yet with all those short comings to overcome they all still perform on par or better than Chabot. This is still not a convincing argument aobut any of these players upside.

[Oling_Roachinen]

Originally Posted by dammage79

And yet with all those short comings to overcome they all still perform on par or better than Chabot. This is still not a convincing argument aobut any of these players upside.

On par? There's not a single defenseman who's had a season like Chabot did last year.

World Junior MVP - literally the best player out of his peers.
CHL Defenseman of the year - despite playing minimal games
QMJHL Playoff MVP - Leads his team to President Cup.

The guy really had a historic season. There's not a single defender who can say they did what Chabot did.

He's a poised puck mover who doesn't have the defensive hole or size issue (although he needs to fill out more), who's pretty much unanimously considered a top prospect not in the NHL. Considered a Calder candidate, already talks of him playing on the top pairing with Karlsson. Yet somehow the Flames have four defensive prospects just as valuable, and that's not even talking about Jankowksi and Parsons (who Flames fans voted in as better prospects).

Sure, they played in the AHL and College, but again, this isn't about our players. It's about Chabot. He's one of the highest touted prospects not in the NHL for good reason, the Flames do not have 6 prospects that could be considered a top 5 prospect...

[Lanny_McDonald]

Originally Posted by kehatch

If you boil it down to career offensive numbers and cap hit you are correct that the players have similar value. But that is a really limited view of the players. I think Duchene has a lot more perceived value by NHL GMs.

Originally Posted by Flames Draft Watcher

I don't think the parallel holds. I think Duchene is thought of league wide as a better player with a higher upside. I think he's seen as a more consistent competitor. And if you believe he can play centre long term then he plays the much more valuable position.

I think a lot more teams are interested in Duchene than were interested in Eberle. Thus his trade value is higher.

Okay, I can see a bump for the fact that he can play center, but as far as being anything more than Eberle, I'm not sold. I'm also not exactly impressed by Duchene making Team Canada. Eric Brewer made it once too.

On his skill set, I love his speed, but he really does disappear when the game gets physical. Is he a $6M player? I don't see it. I wouldn't pay him $6M in the Flames salary structure. Not even close. Too much risk with the player. Pay a small price or move on. Jagr is available for a fraction of the contract, with zero acquisition cost, and out performed Duchene last season.

[Inglewood Jack]

haha, 4 Chabots is totally gonna be the new 5 Giordanos now

[GreenLantern2814]

Originally Posted by jayswin

I keep saying it, but if Kylington hadn't have made the jump to mens hockey so early we'd be talking about him in a much more excited light on this forum.

It's the unfortunate reality of not being able to watch prospects for the most part. People appeal to the stats, but don't really know how or want to understand the major difference in what a stat is worth depending on where they're playing.

There was a play in the Oiler game where Johnny deflected a short handed rush chance. The only reason he was able to do that is because Kylington came from two zones away, diagonally across the ice, to cut the Edmonton player off. It was the most impressive thing I've ever seen him do.

All Kylington needs to do is learn to manage the puck, and he's going to be a superstar. He needs to understand not every possession requires him to carry the puck up the ice. He's such a dynamic skater, but he skates himself out of room. Use that skating to buy an extra second or two, and make a smart pass.

When he plays like that night in and night out, he'll find himself making LD ahead of him expendable.

[Flames Draft Watcher]

Originally Posted by dammage79

Point should be, the anti-Flame prospect bias know no bounds. Some other teams magic beans are better than ours... neat.

There is no anti-Flame prospect bias there. There's a few posters who are dramatically underrating Chabot's prospect status, that's all.

[Flames Draft Watcher]

Originally Posted by dammage79

And yet with all those short comings to overcome they all still perform on par or better than Chabot. This is still not a convincing argument aobut any of these players upside.

Perform by what measure? You have yet to make a single compelling argument as to why Chabot isn't a top, top prospect. You haven't addressed the fact that scouts consider this kid to be one of the best defensemen not yet in the NHL.

Meanwhile I think you'd agree that anybody who considers Kylington, Valimaki, Andersson or Fox to be top 5 prospects outside of the NHL would be making a pretty homer statement.