Official (Alberta) Oil Discussion Thread

[CaptainCrunch]

Simply put, from a question to me earlier, I'm looking at pipes going into the ground on the BC side of the border. The facility work is nice, but its not as sexy to the protestors and legal challengers as pipe itself.

[CaptainCrunch]

Its the Western Standard so take it for what it is, its pretty slanted, but from the first day of the appeals hearing


https://www.westernstandardonline.co...ss-tmx-appeal/

On Monday, the judicial panel, consisting of three, male, septuagenarians headed by Chief Justice Marc Noel (a Harper government appointee), listened to lawyers from three of the groups (Squamish was yet to come). The general thrust of their submissions was similar: the federal government had, as in the first go-round, failed to “meaningfully” engage the bands, had rushed through the process, behaved as if the pipeline approval was a foregone conclusion, and the “Phase 3” consultations were treated as a chore to be got out of the way ASAP. (The phase three consultations followed on the on the consultations that preceded the initial cabinet approval in 2016 then those that preceded last June’s re-approval.)


The TWN lawyers claimed that the federal representatives had ignored evidence from the band’s experts that put the likelihood of tanker spill as high as 75%, maintained that diluted bitumen could sink and be irretrievable in one-to-two days, and that the noise from increased tanker traffic out of Burrard inlet and into the Strait of Georgia could threaten the survival of the orcas that are already “on the brink of extinction.” (Never mind the 100 or more ships that ply those lanes daily already.)


Coldwater’s lawyers argued that the government’s representatives had given the band too little time to discuss the findings from their hired hydro-geological engineer that recommended alternative routes for the pipe that avoided crossing the creeks. (Never mind the fact that the existing Trans Mountain line has crossed creeks in their territory for 65 years without incident.)


And the lawyer for the Stó:lō complained that the feds spent too little time on the consultations (January to May) after wasting too much time preparing (August to December) and failed to “adequately address” the bands 89 recommendations.
Unlike the previous federal court panels—such as those that killed the Northern Gateway and quashed the TMX in 2017—this triumvirate of judges appears devoid of any who might be described as activist. All three have backgrounds in corporate litigation or tax law and none of them hail from Burnaby—site of the controversial TMX terminal and home of Justice Eleanor Dawson, who wrote the 2017 TMX decision quashing the project, and co-wrote the Northern Gateway killer in September 2016.


Thus, for Alberta and Saskatchewan – both of whom are represented as interveners in this hearing — there is some hope that these judges might put an end to the seemingly interminable opposition of an increasingly smaller group of Indigenous activists.

[peter12]

Haha, TMX was working with Stolo as far back as 2013.. My god, I was in Chilliwack working with their consulting group for an entire winter and spring back in 2015.

[Fuzz]

The TWN lawyers claimed that the federal representatives had ignored evidence from the band’s experts that put the likelihood of tanker spill as high as 75%

I'd like someone to double check that math....becuase if it is correct 1/4 current tankers should be having a spill.

[Muta]

Goldman Sachs to spend $750 billion on climate transition projects and curb fossil fuel lending

https://www.cnbc.com/2019/12/16/gold...-projects.html

Goldman Sachs is overhauling its environmental policies, which includes pledging to spend $750 billion on sustainable finance projects over the next decade, as well as implementing stricter lending policies for fossil fuel companies, the company said over the weekend.

[Robbob]

Originally Posted by Fuzz

I'd like someone to double check that math....becuase if it is correct 1/4 current tankers should be having a spill.

I think included in their math is that they are shooting torpedoes at all tankers that only come from that port. There has to be more to that 75%. Maybe if the same tech is used over the next 100 years. Otherwise their expert isn't really helping things.

[DiracSpike]

The catastrophic failure rate of tankers is 5*10^-6 per vessel per year, which means at one tanker per day a spill would be a one in 548 year event. So I guess their math somewhat checks out if they said that there's a 75% chance there would be a spill between now and the year 2429. Somehow I doubt it though. What a farce this entire process is.

[DiracSpike]

Originally Posted by Robbob

I think included in their math is that they are shooting torpedoes at all tankers that only come from that port. There has to be more to that 75%. Maybe if the same tech is used over the next 100 years. Otherwise their expert isn't really helping things.

The funny part about this is that this year there's been a half dozen or so tankers that were literally hit by mines and rockets in the middle east and while some oil leaked out as it should it didn't result in some massive oil spill that's threatening the environment there. Modern double hulled tankers are so advanced that they were literally blown open with minimal oil discharge. But transiting one of the busiest most developed ports in the world (Vancouver) with tankers is beyond the pale of acceptable risk here. Give me a break.

[Tiger]

Originally Posted by DiracSpike

The funny part about this is that this year there's been a half dozen or so tankers that were literally hit by mines and rockets in the middle east and while some oil leaked out as it should it didn't result in some massive oil spill that's threatening the environment there. Modern double hulled tankers are so advanced that they were literally blown open with minimal oil discharge. But transiting one of the busiest most developed ports in the world (Vancouver) with tankers is beyond the pale of acceptable risk here. Give me a break.

never actually thought about this point... that is a good counterpoint to spills.

[Torture]

Originally Posted by Muta

Goldman Sachs to spend $750 billion on climate transition projects and curb fossil fuel lending

https://www.cnbc.com/2019/12/16/gold...-projects.html

Next target for the Alberta War Room!

[OldDutch]

The “war room” is about combating misinformation. It has nothing to do with combating those that reasonably choose to not invest in Oil and Gas.

[Fuzz]

Wastewater from oilsands mining operations have long been a challenge for Canada's energy industry, much of it ending up in industrial tailings ponds.



But scientists and engineers at the University of Calgary are taking aim at eliminating watery tailings from the oilsands production process with the help of specialized liquid salt.



Hot water is used in oilsands mining operations to extract the oily bitumen from the sand, with the resulting wastewater ending up in tailings ponds to settle and later be reused. Alberta has an estimated 1.3 trillion litres of fluid tailings sitting in tailings ponds.
Paula Berton and Steven Bryant believe ionic liquids, or liquid salt, offer a possible solution.


By using ionic liquids instead of water in the extraction process, the researchers say they can eliminate the production of watery tailings, while the ionic liquids can be recycled. They anticipate the leftover sand can be returned to the ground.


The ionic liquids and the resulting sand are not toxic, they say.

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/calga...399160?cmp=rss


Cool stuff, reduce tailings ponds, uses less energy, cheaper oil. I like it.

[Svartsengi]

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/briti...dget-1.5403351

Its not Alberta but if you know someone looking for work a move out to Terrace or Kitimat might be something to consider.

[Bill Bumface]

Originally Posted by Fuzz

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/calga...399160?cmp=rss


Cool stuff, reduce tailings ponds, uses less energy, cheaper oil. I like it.

In other news, someone has cured cancer in mice. Again.

[Fuzz]

I dunno, I find lots of Oil and Gas technology does make it to production. Like those bitumen pucks. I'm sure SAGD was laughed off as well, at one point. It's pretty absurd, but they made that work.

[Weitz]

Originally Posted by Bill Bumface

In other news, someone has cured cancer in mice. Again.

Username checks out.

[Bill Bumface]

Originally Posted by Fuzz

I dunno, I find lots of Oil and Gas technology does make it to production. Like those bitumen pucks. I'm sure SAGD was laughed off as well, at one point. It's pretty absurd, but they made that work.

It looked like microwaves were going to be the ticket for a while. I used to work with a team that was heavily involved in those pilots. Disappointing all the setbacks they encountered.

[Ducay]

Originally Posted by Bill Bumface

In other news, someone has cured cancer in mice. Again.

Forget cancer, I look forward to the next year and another 100 'breakthroughs' in battery technology.

[GGG]

Originally Posted by Bill Bumface

It looked like microwaves were going to be the ticket for a while. I used to work with a team that was heavily involved in those pilots. Disappointing all the setbacks they encountered.

There are still guys trying to do the giant electrodes in the ground.

[PsYcNeT]

Originally Posted by Ducay

Forget cancer, I look forward to the next year and another 100 'breakthroughs' in battery technology.

You do know battery technology has shown magnitudinal leaps in the last 20 years, right?