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Old 06-07-2019, 06:37 PM   #261
Freeway
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Originally Posted by Jiri Hrdina View Post
When you get into the mid 20s you are going to have players with warts. Over simplifying but the guys with high ceilings, tend to have the type of risks that you highlight above. If you pick a safer guy that doesn't have clear deficiencies or concerns, you probably have a much lower ceiling.
I'm generally a fan of drafting largely on the basis of upside - prioritizing hockey sense, skating and scoring ability over character, intangibles or size.
Which is all to say if Kaliyev didnt' have those concerns - he'd be a top 10 or 15 pick. Might still be.

100% this.


The smart organizations are the ones that pick the players with the right warts.
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Old 06-07-2019, 08:08 PM   #262
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100% this.


The smart organizations are the ones that pick the players with the right warts.
Stupid sexy witches.
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Old 06-07-2019, 09:27 PM   #263
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100% this.


The smart organizations are the ones that pick the players with the right warts.
IMO lack of work ethic and drive aren't the right warts.

Lack of skating ability is hard to correct but it can be done. Guys like Bo Horvat have shown that you can work on it and improve it.

Rasmus Andersson turned his lack of conditioning around.

Guys can work on their shots and skills.

In order to improve all of those areas you need to have the work ethic and drive.
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Old 06-08-2019, 09:08 AM   #264
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IMO lack of work ethic and drive aren't the right warts.

Lack of skating ability is hard to correct but it can be done. Guys like Bo Horvat have shown that you can work on it and improve it.

Rasmus Andersson turned his lack of conditioning around.

Guys can work on their shots and skills.

In order to improve all of those areas you need to have the work ethic and drive.
I will say lack of work ethic to be is a pretty big wart as some people are just lazy by nature as we see this daily in our work environment that some people just don't have the drive even when their careers are on the line. To make it to the NHL there has to be a high level of commitment as even the top talents in this draft will not succeed on talent alone when trying to crack the NHL as it takes commitment and hard work. Crosby didn't become the player he is out of talent alone as he's one of the hardest workers in the league. There's a reason there's a lot of pluggers in the NHL playing bottom 6 in place of more talented players in the AHL and that's because of work ethic.

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Old 06-08-2019, 12:38 PM   #265
Jiri Hrdina
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I guess my view though is in the late 20s you are going to have to choose between players that simply don't have the raw ability, regardless of their work ethic, or players that due have the raw ability but have some flaws, perhaps including work ethic.
Obviously that's far too binary, but work ethic is something that can be addressed. Lack of natural talent can't.
For what its worth the guys I have my eye on for the Flames would be:
- Kaliyev
- Brink
- Seider
- Harley
- McMichael

But that's a very uneducated view of things.
I also think there isn't much to separate 20-50 and would be favor of trading down to the low 30s to pick up an extra pick.
In fact I think that would be the most prudent approach unless a guy they really love is sitting their at 26.
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Old 06-08-2019, 12:55 PM   #266
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jiri Hrdina View Post
I guess my view though is in the late 20s you are going to have to choose between players that simply don't have the raw ability, regardless of their work ethic, or players that due have the raw ability but have some flaws, perhaps including work ethic.
Obviously that's far too binary, but work ethic is something that can be addressed. Lack of natural talent can't.
For what its worth the guys I have my eye on for the Flames would be:
- Kaliyev
- Brink
- Seider
- Harley
- McMichael

But that's a very uneducated view of things.
I also think there isn't much to separate 20-50 and would be favor of trading down to the low 30s to pick up an extra pick.
In fact I think that would be the most prudent approach unless a guy they really love is sitting their at 26.
I’m hoping players we move will garner additional picks. No reason to move down in that case.
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Old 06-08-2019, 01:11 PM   #267
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projected top 10 pick. Curious whether that'll affect his draft stock.

https://twitter.com/user/status/1137392180677365761
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Old 06-08-2019, 01:44 PM   #268
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Can't see that affecting Krebs stock. Not much NHL ready talent throughout this draft.
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Old 06-08-2019, 02:19 PM   #269
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Can't see that affecting Krebs stock. Not much NHL ready talent throughout this draft.
Not so much about readiness but perhaps concerns about if it impacts his long-term skating abilities. I don't know if that's a legit concern or not.
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Old 06-08-2019, 08:24 PM   #270
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Not so much about readiness but perhaps concerns about if it impacts his long-term skating abilities. I don't know if that's a legit concern or not.
True. I suspect at worst he may slip 3 or 4 spots?
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Old 06-10-2019, 03:59 PM   #271
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These are 2 kids I hope the Flames steal in rounds 3-6.Williams was once considered a first round pick and Henry Rybinski put up over a PPG once traded to Seattle.Both players have pro quality traits, poor coaching with the Medicine Hat Tigers really set these 2 back in their development(Coach has since been let go).Both players will have huge seasons next year and will be absolute steals of this draft.Hope the Flames have them on their radar.

https://www.eliteprospects.com/playe...henry-rybinski

https://www.eliteprospects.com/playe.../josh-williams
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Old 06-10-2019, 04:05 PM   #272
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Obviously the Flames should take Kaliyev if he falls that far but literally every mock draft I've read has him going top 15.
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Old 06-10-2019, 04:27 PM   #273
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Obviously the Flames should take Kaliyev if he falls that far but literally every mock draft I've read has him going top 15.
My aggregated view has him at 16 with an average ranking of 18 using what I consider to be reputable sources.

But he's got quite a range with a high of 12 to a low of 30 (FC), so he is polarizing. Interesting though, among the entire list I have gathered, no one has him higher than 12.

And actually now that I look at it, one of the sources I use, has him out of the top 30 completely.

Of course it just takes one team to like his upside, but he's also exactly the type of guy that can free-fall.
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Old 06-10-2019, 06:50 PM   #274
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Personally I think he's a perfect fit for the Wild. But they might be gun shy.

I've mostly been paying attention to the top ten because that's hard enough to predict this year, and now with the Krebs thing I have no idea what to think.
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Old 06-10-2019, 07:07 PM   #275
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Kaliyev is one of the few prospects that I think could have really impacted his draft stock during the interview process at combine.

I am guessing teams went into that interview looking for reasons to draft him and others looking for reasons to not draft him. So if he went into the process a little too nonchalant, or even too robotic with his answers I could see him falling in the draft. On the other hand if he went into the process with a bit of desperation and an eagerness to show that he is willing to work on his game there will be a team wanting to take him in the teens.
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Old 06-11-2019, 06:54 AM   #276
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I'm by no means a draft expert as I don't watch these guys and only read scouting reports but it sounds like Kaliyev is as one-dimensional a prospect as there has been in some time. Scores goals and does literally nothing else. No compete, very lazy and always last guy back into his zone. Laine was never considered remotely as one-dimensional as a prospect yet in the NHL he's become just that because everything is harder in the NHL. I think this guys is the classic all or nothing pick as he's either going to get it one day or he's going to be playing in a European league for his career with no in-between.

At 26th I feel the risk maybe worth it in this area of the first round but top 15 I would rather pick a more rounded top prospect.
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Old 06-11-2019, 10:19 AM   #277
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I just hope that the Flames find a David Pastrnak equivalent. Pastrnak was drafted 25th in 2014. Reading through his scouting report it is clear that he had some warts, but his defensive inability didn't end up mattering.


https://thehockeywriters.com/david-p...spect-profile/
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Old 06-11-2019, 10:56 AM   #278
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I'm by no means a draft expert as I don't watch these guys and only read scouting reports but it sounds like Kaliyev is as one-dimensional a prospect as there has been in some time. Scores goals and does literally nothing else. No compete, very lazy and always last guy back into his zone. Laine was never considered remotely as one-dimensional as a prospect yet in the NHL he's become just that because everything is harder in the NHL. I think this guys is the classic all or nothing pick as he's either going to get it one day or he's going to be playing in a European league for his career with no in-between.

At 26th I feel the risk maybe worth it in this area of the first round but top 15 I would rather pick a more rounded top prospect.
Yup that's my thinking as well.
From an offensive point of view he checks all the boxes: hockey sense, shot, speed and stick handling.
You don't find someone in the mid 20s that offers that level of skill across the key attributes
I don't draft him top 12 or 15, because there are alternatives with high upside without those big questions
But at 26? For me it would be a no-brainer. Swing for the fences.
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Old 06-12-2019, 08:47 AM   #279
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I just hope that the Flames find a David Pastrnak equivalent. Pastrnak was drafted 25th in 2014. Reading through his scouting report it is clear that he had some warts, but his defensive inability didn't end up mattering.


https://thehockeywriters.com/david-p...spect-profile/
The 2019 draft reminds me a lot of the 2014 draft, so I absolutely hope you're right. My guess is not very many 1st round picks are getting moved because of how deep it is.
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Old 06-12-2019, 08:55 AM   #280
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What is the 2019 draft pick value of the following players?

Mark Jankowski
Michael Frolík
TJ Brodie
Travis Hamonic
Michael Stone
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