The Democratic Presidential Nomination 2020

[PsYcNeT]

Originally Posted by zamler

Mob demands clean energy, guy innovates trying to get there, mocked by mob.

I mean, Tesla themselves are generally doing a good job (other than the whole "car catches fire and locks you inside" and "8,000 to enable auto-driver on a car that was sold with it enabled" debacles), but let's be real, Elon literally makes himself the object of mockery.

Like, you can't tweet about your love for anime boobies and pretend to be a stalwart captain of industry without receiving some general ribbing.

[CorsiHockeyLeague]

Originally Posted by PsYcNeT

I mean, Tesla themselves are generally doing a good job (other than the whole "car catches fire and locks you inside" and "8,000 to enable auto-driver on a car that was sold with it enabled" debacles), but let's be real, Elon literally makes himself the object of mockery.

If only he'd had some sort of strange physical deformity, like a set of tusks. Overcoming the social challenges that resulted would have boosted his self esteem, making him more collaborative.

[Fozzie_DeBear]

Originally Posted by timun

Can't sell Alberta sunshine or wind elsewhere, but you sure can sell oil to other people.

No but we can sell hydrogen

Check out U of C research at proton.energy website

[Mathgod]

Originally Posted by zamler

Previous POTUS was a climate change guy didn't make a lick of difference. Remember his speech all about clean energy, leading the world in renewables blah blah all hot air.

His hands were tied largely due to endless obstruction by Republicans.

Doesn't work

Wrong. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6fV6eeckxTs

Generic feel good platitude. There IS NO replacement for carbon energy on a mass scale. FFS how many times does this have to repeated, ah who am I kidding nothing will convince the unicorn farts magic energy crowd.

The reason why the world's energy system hasn't mostly moved away from fossil fuels already is because of decades of heel-dragging and climate change denial.

Tesla, and American company, is leading the way towards sustainable transport.

I applaud the efforts they've made, but their contributions don't significantly move the needle in terms of reducing our overall CO2 emission levels.

[dino7c]

Originally Posted by troutman

Trump's win in 2016 required a perfect storm of circumstances for him to get a narrow Electoral College victory. Rachel Bitecofer: "Trump’s 2016 path to the White House, which was the political equivalent of getting dealt a Royal Flush in poker, is probably not replicable in 2020 with an agitated Democratic electorate". @RachelBitecofer

The mid-term results suggest it will be difficult for Trump to pull this off again (possible, but not certain, or even likely). Maybe most important for the Dems is who is added on the ticket for VP. A person of color might be enough to bring out enough Dem voters (Castro, Harris, Booker, Abrams).

https://www.latimes.com/opinion/stor...vice-president

Lol people still believe this stuff, not likely he wins again? Trump is in the drivers seat

[zamler]

Originally Posted by Mathgod

His hands were tied largely due to endless obstruction by Republicans.

Blame the other side for 8 years worst excuse going. I'm done with you.

[afc wimbledon]

Originally Posted by zamler

Previous POTUS was a climate change guy didn't make a lick of difference. Remember his speech all about clean energy, leading the world in renewables blah blah all hot air.

Doesn't work this country is proof.

Generic feel good platitude. There IS NO replacement for carbon energy on a mass scale. FFS how many times does this have to repeated, ah who am I kidding nothing will convince the unicorn farts magic energy crowd.

Tesla, and American company, is leading the way towards sustainable transport.

There is nothing sustainable about any kind of car, electric or otherwise, sustainable means walking biking or public transport, nothing that requires vast amounts of manufacturing using unbelievably nasty chemicals and minerals so that one person can ride on their own to work is sustainable, no matter what kind of car they drive

[zamler]

If you want to continue this topic use this thread I'm not going to off topic this discussion further.

[Lanny_McDonald]

Originally Posted by dino7c

Lol people still believe this stuff, not likely he wins again? Trump is in the drivers seat

Yeah, can you believe people are dumb enough to believe facts? What gaul! What we need is more hand waving, ignorance of facts, and stupid claims about something where almost all data shows that potential is extremely slim at best.

[scotty2hotty]

Originally Posted by zamler

Generic feel good platitude. There IS NO replacement for carbon energy on a mass scale. FFS how many times does this have to repeated, ah who am I kidding nothing will convince the unicorn farts magic energy crowd.

"We don't know how to do it today ... so why bother even trying to figure it out?"

#Zamlerlogic

[PsYcNeT]

Originally Posted by zamler

Blame the other side for 8 years worst excuse going. I'm done with you.

Are you being willfully obtuse here? Like, there are literal books written on the success of the Republican campaign to obstruct Democratic initiatives during the Obama admin. Here's a good place to start:

https://www.politico.com/magazine/st...y-trump-214498

These are things Republicans have publicly celebrated and gloated about, I'm not sure why you're trying to revise history by pretending it didn't occur.

[CliffFletcher]

Originally Posted by Mathgod

The reason why the world's energy system hasn't mostly moved away from fossil fuels already is because of decades of heel-dragging and climate change denial.

Science tells us climate change is real. Science also tells us none of the alternatives come anywhere close to fossil fuels in energy generation, efficiency, portability, or reliability.

Denmark has been investing in wind power for over 40 years. Today, with an ideal geography for wind power, along with the massive state subsidies, wind power provides between 38 to 47 per cent of country's electricity generation. Because wind power fluctuates so much, the country still has to maintain and run enough conventional oil and gas powered plants to power the country. And of course that's just electrical generation - fossil fuels are still the main source by far for transportation, home heating, and agriculture.

That's the scale of progress we can expect with a dedicated investment in transitioning away from fossil fuels - a few per cent per decade. Barring a miraculous scientific breakthrough, most of the world's energy needs 40 years from now will still be met by fossil fuels.

The fact that so many otherwise educated and intelligent people believe we still use fossil fuels because of politics and not science shows just how hard it will be to move forward in a post-truth world.

[EldrickOnIce]

Originally Posted by New Era

Yeah, can you believe people are dumb enough to believe facts? What gaul! What we need is more hand waving, ignorance of facts, and stupid claims about something where almost all data shows that potential is extremely slim at best.

The data shows Trump's chance of reelection is extremely slim at best? Any economic models I've seen show the opposite.
I'm with the Senator (ClayDavis) - without economic collapse I can't see him losing.

Would love to see the data suggesting otherwise. Thanks

[Lanny_McDonald]

Originally Posted by EldrickOnIce

The data shows Trump's chance of reelection is extremely slim at best? Any economic models I've seen show the opposite.
I'm with the Senator (ClayDavis) - without economic collapse I can't see him losing.

Would love to see the data suggesting otherwise. Thanks

Economic models don’t mean a damn thing. The economy isn’t humming along because of anything Trump has done. The economy we are experiencing is because of Obama policy. Trump has done nothing on the policy front except for increasing the debt by trillions of dollars and limiting the government’s ability to pay the bill. That chicken will come home to roost after Trump is out of office.

You want to look at data that matters? Look at the polling data in the battle ground states. Look at the mid-term election results. Look at special election results. All of that data is stacked grossly against Trump and his ability to win a second term. Trump has lost Pennsylvania. He’s lost Michigan. Wisconsin is leaning left. That was the firewall from his “historic” and “convincing” win. Make no mistake, his victory was the back of 77,000 votes from those three states, and they are all but lost. To make matters worse, Florida, Arizona, Georgia, and North Carolina are all in play. Trump will win all those traditionally red states, and some of them big, but the electoral college doesn’t stack up well for him. The data doesn’t look good for Trump, which is a positive for most of us.

[EldrickOnIce]

I sense hostility where there should be none. I'm legitimately curious.

Lots of recent history to suggest that economy matters most, and that rightly or (in this case) wrongly the sitting president gets credit/blame for that.
Races are still close, according to polls, to rebuild the 'blue wall'.Dem candidate needs to get the vote out. Easy for me to say I support any Dem candidate over Trump. That's not the same as me bothering to get out and cast that vote while the economy hums along.

[Senator Clay Davis]

Originally Posted by New Era

To make matters worse, Florida, Arizona, Georgia, and North Carolina are all in play.

This can only happen if Bernie is not the nominee, and he's getting close to lock territory. But the furthest left nominee since McGovern is not gonna make those states viable for the Dems. With Florida gone, the viable path has to include Ohio, and Trump won Ohio by such a large margin it's tough to consider it a swing state. Economic collapse brings more possibilities into play, but right now it's just as thin a path as Trump had in 2016.

[zamler]

Originally Posted by scotty2hotty

"We don't know how to do it today ... so why bother even trying to figure it out?"

#Zamlerlogic

If you read even a little bit of the thread I linked you'll find I am 100% the opposite. But I believe in actual, realistic solutions (and am all in on electric transport).

[rubecube]

Originally Posted by Senator Clay Davis

This can only happen if Bernie is not the nominee, and he's getting close to lock territory. But the furthest left nominee since McGovern is not gonna make those states viable for the Dems. With Florida gone, the viable path has to include Ohio, and Trump won Ohio by such a large margin it's tough to consider it a swing state. Economic collapse brings more possibilities into play, but right now it's just as thin a path as Trump had in 2016.

Again, you're just pulling stuff out of your ass. Bernie is neck and neck with Trump in North Carolina and Georgia. Add Stacy Abrams to the ticket and he has an excellent chance at Georgia and coin flip chance at North Carolina. At that point he would only need Pennsylvania and Michigan, which will almost assuredly go for Sanders.

With regards to Ohio, the latest Emerson poll (which tends to lean Republican) had Sanders +6 in a head-to-head with Trump. Granted that poll is from October and comes with all the caveats of state polling and head to head hypotheticals, but this is hardly the foregone conclusion you keep asserting it is.

[Senator Clay Davis]

Originally Posted by rubecube

Again, you're just pulling stuff out of your ass. Bernie is neck and neck with Trump in North Carolina and Georgia. Add Stacy Abrams to the ticket and he has an excellent chance at Georgia and coin flip chance at North Carolina. At that point he would only need Pennsylvania and Michigan, which will almost assuredly go for Sanders.

With regards to Ohio, the latest Emerson poll (which tends to lean Republican) had Sanders +6 in a head-to-head with Trump. Granted that poll is from October and comes with all the caveats of state polling and head to head hypotheticals, but this is hardly the foregone conclusion you keep asserting it is.

Americans are still Americans, and they haven't all of a sudden shifted hard left, and won't do so if the economy is humming (selfishness still prevails for most voters). Also worth noting Bernie is one of the most kid gloves handled candidates ever. Hillary never went after him very hard in 2016 because she didn't want to piss off his hardcore support, and Warren briefly tried this time (and on something pretty irreverent) and look what happened to her. The GOP will have no such qualms as painting him as cool with Castro and the Sandinistas. Once he starts going through the grinder you can quite obviously expect him to take some hits. With Trump his negatives are already priced in, Bernie has a lot more beating up to take.

[afc wimbledon]

Originally Posted by rubecube

Again, you're just pulling stuff out of your ass. Bernie is neck and neck with Trump in North Carolina and Georgia. Add Stacy Abrams to the ticket and he has an excellent chance at Georgia and coin flip chance at North Carolina. At that point he would only need Pennsylvania and Michigan, which will almost assuredly go for Sanders.

With regards to Ohio, the latest Emerson poll (which tends to lean Republican) had Sanders +6 in a head-to-head with Trump. Granted that poll is from October and comes with all the caveats of state polling and head to head hypotheticals, but this is hardly the foregone conclusion you keep asserting it is.

Sanders will get eviscerated and that will be the last free election we will see in the US, Clinton had a 12% lead over Trump and he destroyed her.