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Old 12-21-2021, 04:34 PM   #6181
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Originally Posted by TorqueDog View Post
Nothing announced today impacts our Christmas plans, everything we were doing falls within the rules.

If you thought the Restrictions Exemption Program was a stupid name before, look at all the restrictions that those businesses are no longer exempt from. All the changes that were announced today:

Indoor entertainment, event and recreation facilities (Effective Dec 24 at 12:01am)
Indoor facilities that participate in the Restrictions Exemption Program:
  • Must limit capacity to:
  • 50% if venue seats more than 1,000 people.
  • 500 people if venue seats between 500 and 1,000 people.
  • No food and drink consumption in seated audience settings or during intermissions in the above mentioned venues.
  • No capacity or food/drink change for venues under 500 people.
So 50% capacity at Flames games? With no food or drink while watching the game? That will be... interesting.
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Old 12-21-2021, 04:35 PM   #6182
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Not that I am going to a Flames game any time soon but I have tickets to the Roughnecks in January so does anyone understand how the new restrictions work?

It says no food or drink at your seat or during intermission. Does that mean if someone wants a beer or snack they can only get that during play and consume it in the concourse?
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Old 12-21-2021, 04:37 PM   #6183
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Originally Posted by TorqueDog View Post
Nothing announced today impacts our Christmas plans, everything we were doing falls within the rules.

If you thought the Restrictions Exemption Program was a stupid name before, look at all the restrictions that those businesses are no longer exempt from. All the changes that were announced today:

Indoor entertainment, event and recreation facilities (Effective Dec 24 at 12:01am)
Indoor facilities that participate in the Restrictions Exemption Program:
  • Must limit capacity to:
  • 50% if venue seats more than 1,000 people.
  • 500 people if venue seats between 500 and 1,000 people.
  • No food and drink consumption in seated audience settings or during intermissions in the above mentioned venues.
  • No capacity or food/drink change for venues under 500 people.

Restaurants, cafes, bars, pubs and nightclubs
The following applies to businesses that participate in the Restrictions Exemption Program (Effective Dec 24 at 12:01am):
  • Limit of 10 people maximum per table. No mingling between tables.
  • No interactive activities (For example: dancing, darts, billiards)
  • Liquor service ends at 11pm and must close at 12:30am.

Workplace gatherings
  • Albertans should refrain from workplace social gatherings.

Masks and physical distancing
  • Masking and 2 metres physical distancing are mandatory in all indoor public spaces, workplaces, and places of worship.
  • Employees must mask in all indoor work settings, except while alone in work stations.
  • Masks are still required in places that implement the Restrictions Exemption Program.
  • Masks should fit well and be of high quality. People at risk of severe outcomes should wear medical masks when in settings with people outside of their household.

------

Good to see we're back to mandating things that don't make a difference, like ending liquor service early.


Keep on supporting the cause though!!!
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Old 12-21-2021, 04:37 PM   #6184
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I was told there is an age bias, which I agreed and produced a table that demonstrated that. The was told there is a vaxxed vs unvaxxed bias and I produced a table that shows that. Anything before Jan 21 are completely unvaxxed. To GGG's point there is a wide variability within a year which makes sense with seasonal dips and waves, which is why I showed the total for the year versus the historical. Agree that there is a more complete risk calc that could be done, but as you say the supporting data is likely not available. I will state once again I am not a statistician, but I do see trends and this one jumped out at me.
As I stated earlier if the increased number is due to shots being given during a peak, then the day zero numbers should show that. Instead they are at or below the historical numbers
I'll say I agree that there is a curious trend of increased covid events within 14 days of initial vaccination. The question is why, and how does that translate to risk vs remaining unvaxxed. You tried to compare with a number that, for reasons already stated, is not apples-to-apples by any means.

The Jan 19 numbers are better as they filter out vaxxed people. But the delta variant arose in late 2020. Those numbers are likely much lower than the unvaxxed numbers in 2021 as a result. And those numbers are also only for 70+, which had the highest level of restrictions/isolation during 2020 because they were highest risk.

The numbers post Jan 19 in your chart include vaxxed people, and so will skew lower, and are not good for comparison.

One theory as to why rates go up 14 days post-vaxx is that people who get vaccinated may engage in riskier behaviors, which only has an effect within the 14 days of being vaccinated because the vaccine hasn't kicked in. They may neglect social distancing, hand washing, masking, etc in the same way that accidents increased after antilock brakes were introduced. Just a thought.

Regardless, bottom line, the comparison you are trying to make can't be made with the numbers available. A good exercise would be to see if the same trends are repeatable for other countries. You would expect to see a similar trend worldwide in the 14-day post vax numbers if the trend were vaccine-related. And maybe there is better data to compare that with elsewhere.
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Old 12-21-2021, 04:38 PM   #6185
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Originally Posted by calgarygeologist View Post
Not that I am going to a Flames game any time soon but I have tickets to the Roughnecks in January so does anyone understand how the new restrictions work?

It says no food or drink at your seat or during intermission. Does that mean if someone wants a beer or snack they can only get that during play and consume it in the concourse?
Precisely. This is how lives are literally saved.
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Old 12-21-2021, 04:39 PM   #6186
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I can’t wait until Kenney is out. I got vaccinated. I followed the rules. Leave me alone already. What an absolute moron this guy is.

Anyone who thinks these measures will do anything is a rube.
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Old 12-21-2021, 04:40 PM   #6187
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Originally Posted by calgarygeologist View Post
Not that I am going to a Flames game any time soon but I have tickets to the Roughnecks in January so does anyone understand how the new restrictions work?

It says no food or drink at your seat or during intermission. Does that mean if someone wants a beer or snack they can only get that during play and consume it in the concourse?
I assume it means there won't be any food or drink service at all (maybe allowed in the restaurants/bars in the arenas?).
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Old 12-21-2021, 04:44 PM   #6188
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Originally Posted by N-E-B View Post
I can’t wait until Kenney is out. I got vaccinated. I followed the rules. Leave me alone already. What an absolute moron this guy is.

Anyone who thinks these measures will do anything is a rube.
BC's are worse and we have no Kenney.
But I share your sentiment.
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Old 12-21-2021, 04:50 PM   #6189
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I canít wait until Kenney is out. I got vaccinated. I followed the rules. Leave me alone already. What an absolute moron this guy is.

Anyone who thinks these measures will do anything is a rube.
What would you like to see happen now?
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Old 12-21-2021, 04:51 PM   #6190
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Whats asinine is you saying "that starts to get pretty uncomfortable for me." when that is something that is fairly easy to do at any pharmacy or AHS location when you compare it to the alternative. The alternative being closed businesses, cancelled life saving treatments and surgeries, and general restrictions to daily life. The fact that you said its 'uncomfortable' to get a simple poke in the arm every 6 - 8 months is asinine when comparing the alternatives.

This isn't about other people, its the fact you said 'uncomfortable for me'. You changed your response to be the 'general population', which I would give the same answer to, but was replying directly to you.
Only around 30 per cent of Canadians get an annual flu shot, even though influenza kills thousands of Canadians a year, and in bad flu seasons our health care system is overloaded beyond capacity. So I don’t have a lot of faith that 80+ per cent of Canadians will rouse themselves to get 2-3 covid shots a year.
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Old 12-21-2021, 04:59 PM   #6191
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What would you like to see happen now?
Iíd like to be left the #### alone to live my life.
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Old 12-21-2021, 05:04 PM   #6192
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Only around 30 per cent of Canadians get an annual flu shot, even though influenza kills thousands of Canadians a year, and in bad flu seasons our health care system is overloaded beyond capacity. So I donít have a lot of faith that 80+ per cent of Canadians will rouse themselves to get 2-3 covid shots a year.
Well in Manitoba as of today, 15% of the people who are eligible to get a booster have gotten it.

That is twice as bad as the flu shot.

IMO the only way out of this is with treatment & expansion of the health care system. We can continue to try and find ways to encourage people to get vaccinated, but there is no way we get to 80% with the booster, or subsequent shots.

Oh, and if Omicron is actually mild and does actually lead to what most call the normal cold, we should actually want most of the population who has healthy to get infected in order to drive natural immunity.
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Old 12-21-2021, 05:04 PM   #6193
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Originally Posted by CliffFletcher View Post
Only around 30 per cent of Canadians get an annual flu shot, even though influenza kills thousands of Canadians a year, and in bad flu seasons our health care system is overloaded beyond capacity. So I donít have a lot of faith that 80+ per cent of Canadians will rouse themselves to get 2-3 covid shots a year.

Especially if all another covid shot gets them is a 50% capacity flames game with no food or drink
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Old 12-21-2021, 05:07 PM   #6194
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Iíd like to be left the #### alone to live my life.
You can be. Drive to the middle of nowhere, ditch your car, hike 30kms into the wilderness and live your life. Nobody is forcing you to live in a community. Nobody will bother you and not a single person will have a single expectation of you. You will be left the #### alone.

If, however, you want roads, and grocery stores, and hospitals, and electricity, and running water, and natural gas to heat your home, and emergency services if you run into trouble, then you can stay, but it comes with some responsibilities to others in the community.

You can't have it both ways. You sound like a toddler with your attitude.
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Old 12-21-2021, 05:11 PM   #6195
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I can't wait for the ####ing melt down on here from some of you when people start to wake up
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Old 12-21-2021, 05:15 PM   #6196
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I'll say I agree that there is a curious trend of increased covid events within 14 days of initial vaccination. The question is why, and how does that translate to risk vs remaining unvaxxed. You tried to compare with a number that, for reasons already stated, is not apples-to-apples by any means.

The Jan 19 numbers are better as they filter out vaxxed people. But the delta variant arose in late 2020. Those numbers are likely much lower than the unvaxxed numbers in 2021 as a result. And those numbers are also only for 70+, which had the highest level of restrictions/isolation during 2020 because they were highest risk.

The numbers post Jan 19 in your chart include vaxxed people, and so will skew lower, and are not good for comparison.

One theory as to why rates go up 14 days post-vaxx is that people who get vaccinated may engage in riskier behaviors, which only has an effect within the 14 days of being vaccinated because the vaccine hasn't kicked in. They may neglect social distancing, hand washing, masking, etc in the same way that accidents increased after antilock brakes were introduced. Just a thought.

Regardless, bottom line, the comparison you are trying to make can't be made with the numbers available. A good exercise would be to see if the same trends are repeatable for other countries. You would expect to see a similar trend worldwide in the 14-day post vax numbers if the trend were vaccine-related. And maybe there is better data to compare that with elsewhere.
Thank you for acknowledging there is a trend! It has taken me this long to get to this point. Again I am not comparing for long term risk. Just see a trend and wanted to discuss reasonably and I thank you and GGG for an intelligent and respectful discussion. Agree it would be interesting to compare to other jurisdictions
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Old 12-21-2021, 05:18 PM   #6197
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Only around 30 per cent of Canadians get an annual flu shot, even though influenza kills thousands of Canadians a year, and in bad flu seasons our health care system is overloaded beyond capacity. So I donít have a lot of faith that 80+ per cent of Canadians will rouse themselves to get 2-3 covid shots a year.
Sorry, are you saying our hospitals are overloaded simile to Covid in a bad flu year? Source please? All of our hospitals at the same time resulting in the cancellation of cancer treatment and life altering elective surgeries?
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Old 12-21-2021, 05:19 PM   #6198
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I can't wait for the ####ing melt down on here from some of you when people start to wake up
Wake up to what? Intubation?
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Old 12-21-2021, 05:20 PM   #6199
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You can be. Drive to the middle of nowhere, ditch your car, hike 30kms into the wilderness and live your life. Nobody is forcing you to live in a community. Nobody will bother you and not a single person will have a single expectation of you. You will be left the #### alone.

If, however, you want roads, and grocery stores, and hospitals, and electricity, and running water, and natural gas to heat your home, and emergency services if you run into trouble, then you can stay, but it comes with some responsibilities to others in the community.

You can't have it both ways. You sound like a toddler with your attitude.
I have all of that. Iíve followed all the rules. Iím fully vaccinated.

I want the government to leave those of us who have made the effort alone. I donít think itís too much to ask and I donít think being pissed off makes me sound like a toddler.

But hey, Kenneyís boots might taste good. What do I know?
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Old 12-21-2021, 05:21 PM   #6200
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Iíd like to be left the #### alone to live my life.
if you or a loved one got sick, would you like a hospital to go to?
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