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Old 12-09-2021, 02:07 PM   #5221
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What a surprise. Complete incompetence.

https://twitter.com/user/status/1469025703081426959

https://twitter.com/user/status/1469030081343410176
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Old 12-09-2021, 02:11 PM   #5222
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Medical surveillance in Canada is pretty spotty, and mostly relies on manual reporting, so I'd take the raw # of adverse reactions with a big grain of salt.

My wife had a suspected severe adverse reaction to her 1st dose, but I don't know if it ever actually got reported properly. The neurologist gave her a number to call to report it, but the people that answered were more or less useless and just told her to talk to her doctor. So she did, but then he just just complained that it was a bunch of paperwork that he didn't feel like filling out, so I'm skeptical it ever actually got reported. In the end it was fine, no long-term symptoms and she got her 2nd dose OK, but trying to navigate the whole system was like pulling teeth and I'm sure the vast majority of people wouldn't even bother.

Some European countries have much better surveillance that doesn't rely on humans to manually report things. They automatically cross reference events with vaccination status of the patients and the timeline of their dose to see if anything pops up, which is why they're always the first ones to discover links to blood clots, narcolepsy, etc. So severe reactions are obviously still quite rare or countries with more robust systems would be picking up on them. But Canada's numbers aren't worth a whole lot.
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Old 12-09-2021, 02:12 PM   #5223
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We should really be making a bigger effort to increase the flu vaccination levels year per year.

I was actually surprised to learn how many people died each year, but I always have older family & friends that really struggle with it. There simply isn't enough awareness around it.
But last year I felt a little crumby after it so #### everyone else Iím not taking another one.

/sarcasm.
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Old 12-09-2021, 02:28 PM   #5224
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Not getting a shot that lower the outcome of having a bad outcome due to COVID because you felt crappy for a couple days after the vaccine is an idiotic decision.
Having mild reaction, like most people do, and resisting getting the 2nd? Yes, that is idiotic.

Our friend's 16 year old had a severe reaction and was hospitalized. They elected not to get the 2nd dose and are very afraid of getting their 11 year old vaccinated. That is understandable. They should know that what happens to one is likely to not happen to the other, but as a parent myself, I completely understand.

Whether they are valid or not, there are reasons to not get the vaccine. It would seem to me that the majority of the reasons to not get the vaccine are indeed idiotic decision making.
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Old 12-09-2021, 02:38 PM   #5225
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Having mild reaction, like most people do, and resisting getting the 2nd? Yes, that is idiotic.

Our friend's 16 year old had a severe reaction and was hospitalized. They elected not to get the 2nd dose and are very afraid of getting their 11 year old vaccinated. That is understandable. They should know that what happens to one is likely to not happen to the other, but as a parent myself, I completely understand.

Whether they are valid or not, there are reasons to not get the vaccine. It would seem to me that the majority of the reasons to not get the vaccine are indeed idiotic decision making.

They should actually get their 11 year old done at the children's dose level before they have a 12 year old who would then get the adult dose.



That's the biggest problem with the 12-17 yo age cohort; they're getting full doses.
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Old 12-09-2021, 03:07 PM   #5226
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They should actually get their 11 year old done at the children's dose level before they have a 12 year old who would then get the adult dose.



That's the biggest problem with the 12-17 yo age cohort; they're getting full doses.
I agree that they should but completely understand their fears. Not my decision to make and I'm not close enough to them so I'm not going to say anything. But knowing the little bit that I do, and I'm not an expert, I think their youngest would be fine.
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Old 12-09-2021, 03:17 PM   #5227
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Originally Posted by Buff View Post
Having mild reaction, like most people do, and resisting getting the 2nd? Yes, that is idiotic.

Our friend's 16 year old had a severe reaction and was hospitalized. They elected not to get the 2nd dose and are very afraid of getting their 11 year old vaccinated. That is understandable. They should know that what happens to one is likely to not happen to the other, but as a parent myself, I completely understand.

Whether they are valid or not, there are reasons to not get the vaccine. It would seem to me that the majority of the reasons to not get the vaccine are indeed idiotic decision making.
I have a friend who got COVID really bad and his doctor is advising him not to get vaccinated until his recovery reaches a certain point.

Of course society has decided that despite his certain natural immunity, he can't go do one of the things he loves to do most. Eat a restaurant with his family.

So yes there are reasons that people don't get vaccinated. It is few and far between, but it does exist and I don't think its fair that we have created rules without exceptions.
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Old 12-09-2021, 03:26 PM   #5228
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Originally Posted by Azure View Post
I have a friend who got COVID really bad and his doctor is advising him not to get vaccinated until his recovery reaches a certain point.

Of course society has decided that despite his certain natural immunity, he can't go do one of the things he loves to do most. Eat a restaurant with his family.

So yes there are reasons that people don't get vaccinated. It is few and far between, but it does exist and I don't think its fair that we have created rules without exceptions.
It is too bad that the exceptions get abused so badly if that door is opened.
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Old 12-09-2021, 04:29 PM   #5229
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AHS has commented on this. On their twitter they've stated they haven't had any pediatric hospitalizations, and only 2036 reports of adverse effects from about 7 million doses. In Canada as of Nov 26 from 60 million doses there were serious adverse events in 0.011%.




.
no big surprise but this appears to be a coordinated misinformation campaign with reports of ".xx" hospitalizations at "insert name of big hospital especially children's hospital in your city" popping up more or less simultaneously across NA
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Old 12-09-2021, 04:47 PM   #5230
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NAIROBI, Dec 9 (Reuters) - South Africa, where the Omicron coronavirus variant is driving a fourth wave of COVID-19 infections, has seen a 255% increase in infections in the past seven days, but only 6% of intensive care beds are occupied by COVID-19 patients, WHO Africa official Thierno Balde said on Thursday.
https://www.reuters.com/world/africa...rce=reddit.com

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GABERONE, Dec 8 (Reuters) - Botswana has not seen a rise in COVID-19 hospitalisations despite being one of the first countries to detect the Omicron variant, and has managed to fully vaccinate 71% of its 1.3 million eligible population, the health minister said on Wednesday.
https://www.reuters.com/business/hea...ed-2021-12-08/

Also, waiting to see if we ban travel from the UK in 3, 2, 1....

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Cases of the Omicron variant could be spreading even faster in England than in South Africa, according to a senior scientific adviser, who warned that the variant was a “very severe setback” to hopes of bringing the pandemic under control.

The UK Health Security Agency identified a further 249 Omicron cases on Thursday, almost twice the number announced the day before, bringing the UK total to 817. Edmunds said that if the UK had 1,000 cases today, then a doubling time of two to three days would drive the number up to 8,000 in a week and 64,000 in two weeks. Those would come on top of the continuing wave of Delta infections.
https://www.theguardian.com/world/20...e-adviser-says
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Old 12-09-2021, 05:05 PM   #5231
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The federal government is facing mounting global pressure to reverse its new Canadian border rules that are widely seen as discriminatory and unscientific for their ban on foreign visitors from 10 African countries and their rejection of coronavirus tests from those countries.

With the Omicron variant now detected in at least 57 countries worldwide and already spreading locally in many of these countries, the travel bans by Canada and other Western governments are increasingly being denounced as a form of segregation that unfairly punishes African countries.

United Nations Secretary-General Antonio Guterres and other critics have described the Western bans as “travel apartheid.”

Canada’s requirement for third-country testing – refusing to let travellers use COVID-19 tests from the banned African countries – has compounded the controversy. It has become a major issue in one of the banned countries, South Africa, which was the first to detect and report Omicron last month. World Health Organization officials have also condemned the Canadian rule.

Health experts says South Africa’s PCR testing network is as good or better than that of Canada, because it has two decades of mass-scale experience in a similar technique, HIV viral load testing. Many experts say the Canadian policy is racially discriminatory in implying that African laboratories are inferior.

Canada is the only country among the Group of Seven that requires third-country testing for its own citizens who are returning from the banned African countries. Travel rules from Germany, the United States, France, Britain, Italy and Japan make no mention of out-of-country testing requirements, making Canada’s rules the most cumbersome for citizens trying to return home. (Japan though, has a much broader ban on foreign nationals, and last week suspended all entries, except for exceptional circumstances, until Dec. 31.)

In some cases, family reunification has been blocked. Hannah Woolaver, a Canadian law professor at the University of Cape Town who is currently in Ontario, has been told that her husband cannot enter Canada to spend Christmas with her and their seven-month-old son.

Her husband, a dual citizen of South Africa and Britain, is currently in South Africa. Because of ambiguities in the travel rules, airlines have told him he needs written authorization to enter Canada, and the Canadian high commission in Pretoria has declined to provide it.

“As a young family, it is incredibly distressing to be separated during the pandemic,” Prof. Woolaver told The Globe. “We are very frustrated by the confusion and contradictory information from different parts of the government. As a Canadian, I feel that the government has failed us.”
https://www.theglobeandmail.com/worl...+Article+Links

Combined with the complete incompetence that we heard earlier today with managing travelers, this speaks really well of our country. Run by morons.
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Old 12-09-2021, 05:10 PM   #5232
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https://twitter.com/user/status/1468492824010178561
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Old 12-09-2021, 07:37 PM   #5233
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Originally Posted by Azure View Post
I have a friend who got COVID really bad and his doctor is advising him not to get vaccinated until his recovery reaches a certain point.

Of course society has decided that despite his certain natural immunity, he can't go do one of the things he loves to do most. Eat a restaurant with his family.

So yes there are reasons that people don't get vaccinated. It is few and far between, but it does exist and I don't think its fair that we have created rules without exceptions.
How long has your friend been recovering for?

It does suck for him, but at the same time, perspective tells us that not going out to eat at a restaurant is pretty small potatoes.
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Old 12-09-2021, 11:31 PM   #5234
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If you prefer the disposable hospital style masks, where is the best place to grab a box locally these days?
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Old 12-10-2021, 07:00 AM   #5235
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To those who don't want to get the second shot (or the first) I say, good luck never flying on an airplane again. I don't see that changing anytime soon, if ever.
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Old 12-10-2021, 07:21 AM   #5236
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How long has your friend been recovering for?

It does suck for him, but at the same time, perspective tells us that not going out to eat at a restaurant is pretty small potatoes.
He got sick in the summer of last year.

One lung had completely shut down, and one was at 15% capacity.

There are other issues I assume that he's kept private, but its been a long road back.

He'd be the first person lined up to get vaccinated if he could.

Interesting enough, he's had some direct exposure and hasn't gotten sick again, and we're almost 1.5 years past the date of when he originally got COVID.

Perspective is pretty stupid if we're one of the few countries who refuses to acknowledge natural immunity.

More to that here.

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"studies show that protection from reinfection is strong and persists for more than 10 months of follow-up"

"Given the evidence of immunity from previous SARS-CoV-2 infection, policy makers should consider recovery from previous SARS-CoV-2 infection equal to immunity from vaccination for purposes related to entry to public events, businesses, and the workplace, or travel requirements."
https://www.thelancet.com/journals/l...676-9/fulltext

Last edited by Azure; 12-10-2021 at 07:28 AM.
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Old 12-10-2021, 07:25 AM   #5237
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https://twitter.com/user/status/1469191134769561602
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Old 12-10-2021, 09:17 AM   #5238
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He got sick in the summer of last year.

One lung had completely shut down, and one was at 15% capacity.

There are other issues I assume that he's kept private, but its been a long road back.

He'd be the first person lined up to get vaccinated if he could.

Interesting enough, he's had some direct exposure and hasn't gotten sick again, and we're almost 1.5 years past the date of when he originally got COVID.

Perspective is pretty stupid if we're one of the few countries who refuses to acknowledge natural immunity.

More to that here.

https://www.thelancet.com/journals/l...676-9/fulltext
An infection from 1.5 years ago wouldn't qualify as immune anywhere in the world that I'm aware of.
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Old 12-10-2021, 09:33 AM   #5239
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It's also possible they've just hit their testing capacity limit (hence the ridiculously high positivity). They're currently testing as many people per day as they have in the entire pandemic.

Also, I'm not sure an anti-lockdown mildly antivax engineer with no apparent training in medicine or epidemiology is really a great source for this. Here are some previous gems from him:

https://twitter.com/pieterstreicher/...03279190290441

https://twitter.com/pieterstreicher/...37705058930690
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Old 12-10-2021, 09:46 AM   #5240
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Originally Posted by Azure View Post
He got sick in the summer of last year.

One lung had completely shut down, and one was at 15% capacity.

There are other issues I assume that he's kept private, but its been a long road back.

He'd be the first person lined up to get vaccinated if he could.

Interesting enough, he's had some direct exposure and hasn't gotten sick again, and we're almost 1.5 years past the date of when he originally got COVID.

Perspective is pretty stupid if we're one of the few countries who refuses to acknowledge natural immunity.

More to that here.



https://www.thelancet.com/journals/l...676-9/fulltext
Call me crazy but if I had that kind of lung problems from Covid I wouldn’t be rushing back to indoor dining facilities… especially without my second dose.
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