Coronavirus All Purpose Thread: The unnecessary Dumb Dumb 4th wave

[Azure]

Originally Posted by opendoor

I mean, Vitamin D is a bit of a red herring. It's more of a marker of health than it is a causative factor (healthier people are more likely to have higher levels), and studies for a range of diseases have found little to no clinical benefit from supplementation in terms of preventing or reducing disease. There's also the possibility of reverse causality, as there's evidence of vitamin D levels falling rapidly during hospitalization. So it's also possible that severe infection itself depletes vitamin D levels

That's not to say people shouldn't take it (I personally take Vitamin D every day), but population-wide vaccination coverage is going to have a massively bigger effect on every negative effect of COVID than people taking vitamin D supplements.

Yes, just tell people to eat healthy and exercise, why didn't the government think of that? Perhaps because that kind of thing will take decades to return significant results? Or maybe it's just big pharma, hard to tell which is right.

Ultimately, there is only one realistic answer to significantly limiting the negative effects on COVID and that's vaccinating as many people as possible.

I agree that vaccination uptake is extremely important.

I just think that we have reached the highest rates we'll see, so the messaging needs to change towards prevention & treatment that does not necessarily just equal = get vaccinated.

We have good data to know what works and what doesn't, and like I said earlier there are drugs on the way that will specifically help with COVID treatment.

COVID should allow us to get out there and tell people their unhealthy lifestyle puts them more at risk of COVID or otherwise. We simply are not pushing hard enough on that.

[activeStick]

I think Dr. Rogan also prescribes exercise, a healthy diet, vitamins (including vitamin D) and exercise too. Only thing missing I think that he prescribes as well is plenty of sauna time.

[topfiverecords]

So the poster who has spent so much time pushing ventilation, filtration and UV ceiling fans be retrofitted in every classroom, in every school in the country to help reduce spread amongst school age children is now suggesting that vaccinating that age group isn’t a high priority…

[Fuzz]

Originally Posted by Azure

I agree that vaccination uptake is extremely important.

I just think that we have reached the highest rates we'll see, so the messaging needs to change towards prevention & treatment that does not necessarily just equal = get vaccinated.

We have good data to know what works and what doesn't, and like I said earlier there are drugs on the way that will specifically help with COVID treatment.

COVID should allow us to get out there and tell people their unhealthy lifestyle puts them more at risk of COVID or otherwise. We simply are not pushing hard enough on that.

Well that's demonstrably wrong, since kids haven't been vaccinated. Unless zero parents opt for vaccines, your statement is wrong. There are also huge swaths of rural morons who need to get vaccinated. We need to find a way to reach them so we can control medical system strain and costs, unless you plan on setting them up on exercise programs and vitamins...

[Azure]

Originally Posted by Fuzz

Well that's demonstrably wrong, since kids haven't been vaccinated. Unless zero parents opt for vaccines, your statement is wrong. There are also huge swaths of rural morons who need to get vaccinated. We need to find a way to reach them so we can control medical system strain and costs, unless you plan on setting them up on exercise programs and vitamins...

77% of people aged 12+ in the Winnipeg health authority have been fully vaccinated.

Within most districts, this number is above 80%. I believe the downtown district and a district on the westside are dragging the overall average slightly downwards.

Because of these types of numbers, which are similar across the rest of Manitoba, as far as public health is concerned, ICU rates & hospitalization rates are low and manageable. Therefore despite 12 and under still not having been vaccinated, there is no big concern about needing to further impose restrictions, mandates, etc. For most people life is slowly getting back to normal.

I am not opposed to vaccinating children. If we are able to further increase the overall rate of vaccinated, great. I am simply saying that for people that are vaccinated, which as demonstrated are most people, the risk of severe outcomes due to COVID have shifted towards if you have pre-existing or underlying conditions, and will continue to shift in that direction as more people get vaccinated. Therefore one might suggest that we should further expand on reducing those severe risks via treatment & encouraging a healthy lifestyle via exercise, proper diet, etc.

What is demonstrably wrong is not understanding that we are not getting to 100% rates, thinking that we will see immediate high rates of vaccination among the 5-12 age group, and thinking that vaccination alone will make COVID go away.

[Azure]

Originally Posted by topfiverecords

So the poster who has spent so much time pushing ventilation, filtration and UV ceiling fans be retrofitted in every classroom, in every school in the country to help reduce spread amongst school age children is now suggesting that vaccinating that age group isn’t a high priority…

Perhaps if you had proper reading comprehension you would have realized that those things were all suggested over a year ago when vaccination rates were 0% and there was a very high risk of spread?

[Jiri Hrdina]

Originally Posted by Azure

What is demonstrably wrong is not understanding that we are not getting to 100% rates, thinking that we will see immediate high rates of vaccination among the 5-12 age group, and thinking that vaccination alone will make COVID go away.

Neat but is anyone actually saying that?

[Scroopy Noopers]

Originally Posted by Jiri Hrdina

Neat but is anyone actually saying that?

Nope.

[GGG]

rT per Imgrund in Winnipeg is currently 1.07. They certainly could use more vaccination.

[Fuzz]

Originally Posted by GGG

rT per Imgrund in Winnipeg is currently 1.07. They certainly could use more vaccination.

You mean exercise and vitamin D, right?

[Hot_Flatus]

Originally Posted by Azure

Well, kids are low risk & most of the population is already vaccinated. So we don't need massive uptake on this to 'stop the spread' and it better not be presented as such.

We are completely capable of reducing risk to everyone without this.

Biggest importance to me is the kids with health conditions, or kids living with people that are at risk.

My concern is the simple fact that there is still a risk of spreading, and therefore we need to STILL be concerned about our vulnerable citizens, regardless of vaccine uptake numbers. But of course we knew that from the start and nobody gave a #### about it (care home situation). So I'd imagine everyone will continue giving a #### about it going into the future.

So are we just going to say go get your 5-11 aged kids vaccinated if and when you feel like it.....No big deal either way? Like it or not, kids will benefit from the protection if they do contract covid and a vaccinated individual is something like 63% less likely to pass on covid to an unvaccinated individual which is huge to limiting the ability for the virus to spread. Without at least a decent uptake in the sub 12 age, you are going to see more mutations and likely daily caseloads that simply don't drop to levels they may otherwise.

Initially I'm not sure many parents will be burning rubber to go get their children jabbed but you can bet it will happen of the course of the next 2-3 months and with it a much reduced caseload and safer environment for everyone, including those most at risk.

[Fuzz]

Originally Posted by Hot_Flatus

So are we just going to say go get your 5-11 aged kids vaccinated if and when you feel like it.....No big deal either way? Like it or not, kids will benefit from the protection if they do contract covid and a vaccinated individual is something like 63% less likely to pass on covid to an unvaccinated individual to begin with. Without at least a decent uptake in the sub 12 age, you are going to see more mutations and likely daily caseloads that simply don't drop to levels they may otherwise.

Initially I'm not sure many parents will be burning rubber to go get their children jabbed but you can bet it will happen of the course of the next 2-3 months and with it a much reduced caseload and safer environment for families.

This shouldn't be difficult. Schedule vaccine clinics in schools, send kids home with permission slips, get 80% of them vaccinated in schools within a month. Hell, they could all have protection by Christmas if it gets approved soon. That'd be huge for making holidays safer for elderly family members, and reducing a Christmas bump.

[Harry Lime]

Vaccinated = good
Vaccinated + exercise = better
Vaccinated + exercise + healthy eating habits = even better

What's with the piling on, why is a advocating a healthy lifestyle anti-vaxx? If we know that comorbidity is a problem, we should probably be multi-tasking here, and not crapping all over everybody, all the time.

[Buff]

Originally Posted by Harry Lime

Vaccinated = good
Vaccinated + exercise = better
Vaccinated + exercise + healthy eating habits = even better

What's with the piling on, why is a advocating a healthy lifestyle anti-vaxx? If we know that comorbidity is a problem, we should probably be multi-tasking here, and not crapping all over everybody, all the time.

The way Azure worded it he/she was insinuating that we just need to eat good and exercise and not worry about vaccines.

[Azure]

Originally Posted by Hot_Flatus

So are we just going to say go get your 5-11 aged kids vaccinated if and when you feel like it.....No big deal either way? Like it or not, kids will benefit from the protection if they do contract covid and a vaccinated individual is something like 63% less likely to pass on covid to an unvaccinated individual which is huge to limiting the ability for the virus to spread. Without at least a decent uptake in the sub 12 age, you are going to see more mutations and likely daily caseloads that simply don't drop to levels they may otherwise.

Initially I'm not sure many parents will be burning rubber to go get their children jabbed but you can bet it will happen of the course of the next 2-3 months and with it a much reduced caseload and safer environment for everyone, including those most at risk.

I would say there will be slow uptake with kids getting vaccinated.

How we want to handle that will be interesting, because we are already dealing with 1-2 years of learning setbacks.

I certainly don't think its necessary to 'send kids home with slips' when 85% of people are vaccinated.

[Azure]

Originally Posted by Buff

The way Azure worded it he/she was insinuating that we just need to eat good and exercise and not worry about vaccines.

I have never said that.

I said if you are ALREADY VACCINATED, perhaps it would be wise to take a look at other clearly proven methods to help reduce your risk of a severe outcome from COVID.

Obesity
Heart Disease
Lack of Exercise
Diabetes

Are all PROVEN to lead to more severe outcomes from getting COVID, even if you are still vaccinated.

[FireFly]

Originally Posted by Fuzz

This shouldn't be difficult. Schedule vaccine clinics in schools, send kids home with permission slips, get 80% of them vaccinated in schools within a month. Hell, they could all have protection by Christmas if it gets approved soon. That'd be huge for making holidays safer for elderly family members, and reducing a Christmas bump.

Yeah no. I won't be getting my daughter vaccinated before Christmas, even with a permission slip and vaccination clinic in her school. Hard pass until there are more than 1500 kids this has been tested on. I read bits of the report and frankly, that there are any serious vaccine injuries in a sample so small is pretty concerning.

[opendoor]

Originally Posted by FireFly

Yeah no. I won't be getting my daughter vaccinated before Christmas, even with a permission slip and vaccination clinic in her school. Hard pass until there are more than 1500 kids this has been tested on. I read bits of the report and frankly, that there are any serious vaccine injuries in a sample so small is pretty concerning.

You realize the "serious vaccine injuries" in the trial had nothing to do with the vaccine, right? There were 5 serious adverse events that were identified in the trial (4 in the vaccine group and 1 in the placebo) and they included the following:

1 case of infective arthritis (joint infection cause by bacteria)
3 bone fractures (2 in vaccine group and 1 in the placebo)
1 ingestion of a penny (seriously)

[getbak]

I laughed very hard when I read that one of the adverse events was ingestion of a penny. It will be funny to hear the antivax spin on that.

[opendoor]

Originally Posted by Azure

I have never said that.

I said if you are ALREADY VACCINATED, perhaps it would be wise to take a look at other clearly proven methods to help reduce your risk of a severe outcome from COVID.

Obesity
Heart Disease
Lack of Exercise
Diabetes

Are all PROVEN to lead to more severe outcomes from getting COVID, even if you are still vaccinated.

But you presented it as a dichotomy; essentially "don't waste your time thinking about increasing vaccination rates in the population. Instead, start exercising and eating healthier." You can do both. I exercise 5-6 days a week, but that doesn't mean I don't think we should do everything we can to get everyone vaccinated.