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Old 09-28-2021, 10:56 AM   #3341
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These ideas are dangerous. This undermines everything this country stands for and is very authoritarian. Compelling vaccinations is offensive on so many levels. Mandating a "passport" for all non-essential services is a very big affront to individual liberties but given the predicament we are in, it's sadly necessary and likely justified.
Almost as dangerous as willingly and purposefully spreading a virus that kills people, all the while showing a complete disregard for their right to life?

Remember folks, rights only apply to the unvaccinated. The vaccinated, elderly and vulnerable need to die so the unvaccinated can have unencumbered freedoms.

What about the freedoms of the vaccinated? Donít exist and donít count.
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Old 09-28-2021, 10:57 AM   #3342
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People like to say that, but I don't even know what that means in practicality. Nurses all over North America are well educated, but they are among the worst offenders of spreading nonsense, and their health care education gives their nonsense more weight. People are being fooled into thinking they are the ones doing the critical thinking.
Countries like France and Japan have very strong education systems, but they also have much higher vaccine hesitancy rates than Canada. Not to mention Alberta, which has among the highest education funding in Canada, but lowest vaccination rates.

And as you point out, the people opposed to covid vaccines believe they’re the ones doing the critical thinking and we’re all unquestioning sheep.

The issue isn’t education, it’s trust. Knowledge and information used to be controlled by a small number of institutions that were widely recognized as being truthful and legitimate: government, a couple newspapers and broadcast news sources per city, a handful of magazines and publishers. Now we have a deep-rooted distrust of institutions, and near-infinite sources of information, almost all motivated by the toxic logic of attention-capture algorithms. Increasing education budgets won’t change that.
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Old 09-28-2021, 11:03 AM   #3343
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Stop making fake vaccine cards....Or else.
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Looks like you'll need one long before I will. May I suggest deflection king?
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Old 09-28-2021, 11:17 AM   #3344
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Countries like France and Japan have very strong education systems, but they also have much higher vaccine hesitancy rates than Canada. Not to mention Alberta, which has among the highest education funding in Canada, but lowest vaccination rates.
France's vaccination rate is basically identical to Canada's. 75% of the overall population has 1+ doses and 87% of the 12+ population does (Canada is 77% and 88% in those stats). Japan's is currently lower at 70% of the whole population, but that's because their rollout has been slow. In the last 4 months they've consistently done about 3% of their population per week and they're not showing any signs of slowing down yet, so they'll likely match Canada as well.
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Old 09-28-2021, 11:17 AM   #3345
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The issue isnít education, itís trust. Knowledge and information used to be controlled by a small number of institutions that were widely recognized as being truthful and legitimate: government, a couple newspapers and broadcast news sources per city, a handful of magazines and publishers. Now we have a deep-rooted distrust of institutions, and near-infinite sources of information, almost all motivated by the toxic logic of attention-capture algorithms. Increasing education budgets wonít change that.
I remember a time when I thought many problems were the result of people's lack of access to educational resources, now with smart phones it turns out that's not the case.

People at just cnuts.
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Old 09-28-2021, 11:28 AM   #3346
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Countries like France and Japan have very strong education systems, but they also have much higher vaccine hesitancy rates than Canada. Not to mention Alberta, which has among the highest education funding in Canada, but lowest vaccination rates.

And as you point out, the people opposed to covid vaccines believe they’re the ones doing the critical thinking and we’re all unquestioning sheep.

The issue isn’t education, it’s trust. Knowledge and information used to be controlled by a small number of institutions that were widely recognized as being truthful and legitimate: government, a couple newspapers and broadcast news sources per city, a handful of magazines and publishers. Now we have a deep-rooted distrust of institutions, and near-infinite sources of information, almost all motivated by the toxic logic of attention-capture algorithms. Increasing education budgets won’t change that.
Exactly this.

A good majority of people who are scared of the vaccine aren't dumb, or selfish or uneducated.

They are scared because the ####ing internet and social media and the associated algorithms are designed to scare the #### out of them.

You aren't going to help those people by vilifying and isolating them. Compassion and understanding may help.

This toxic loop of people on this thread losing their collective mind and forgetting this is not helping. Wishing harm on people who are scared doesn't make you cool or intelligent. It makes you #######s.

Edit: I quoted this post because I was agreeing with the comment, not directing my comments at this person.
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Old 09-28-2021, 11:33 AM   #3347
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Exactly this.

A good majority of people who are scared of the vaccine aren't dumb, or selfish or uneducated.

They are scared because the ####ing internet and social media and the associated algorithms are designed to scare the #### out of them.
Are they really that smart if they can be outsmarted by social media algorithms.......
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Old 09-28-2021, 11:46 AM   #3348
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This isn’t new. The masses have been getting duped by government, news media and their neighbours/friends/community for hundreds of years. Thousands.

There have never been just a “few trusted sources” where people got their info. There was a time when there were fewer sources but they were just as corrupt.

In fact, not much has really changed. Humans have been pretty stupid and gullible for a long, long time. As technology has made information more easily transmissible to the masses, it has been easier to dupe the morons that we humans are.
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Old 09-28-2021, 11:51 AM   #3349
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Exactly this.

A good majority of people who are scared of the vaccine aren't dumb, or selfish or uneducated.

They are scared because the ####ing internet and social media and the associated algorithms are designed to scare the #### out of them.

You aren't going to help those people by vilifying and isolating them. Compassion and understanding may help.

This toxic loop of people on this thread losing their collective mind and forgetting this is not helping. Wishing harm on people who are scared doesn't make you cool or intelligent. It makes you #######s.

Edit: I quoted this post because I was agreeing with the comment, not directing my comments at this person.
You can definitely make the case for the social media engine driving much of this vaccine hesitancy in a small segment of the population. This is not a meaningful amount of the population that remains unvaxxed at this point.

There are far more selfish degenerates who are simply refusing to be told what to put in their bodies, or are just dumb enough to think that they already got covid and are now they're in the clear.

What is the most common statement coming from the ICU's - "I didn't think about anyone else" or "I thought I was strong enough to fight it off". Zero sympathy from me in that case.
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Old 09-28-2021, 11:55 AM   #3350
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You can definitely make the case for the social media engine driving much of this vaccine hesitancy in a small segment of the population. This is not a meaningful amount of the population that remains unvaxxed at this point.

There are far more selfish degenerates who are simply refusing to be told what to put in their bodies, or are just dumb enough to think that they already got covid and are now they're in the clear.

What is the most common statement coming from the ICU's - "I didn't think about anyone else" or "I thought I was strong enough to fight it off". Zero sympathy from me in that case.
I don't agree with this at all. Nearly every one I know who is against vaccines for them or their kids are either right wingers getting info from their favorite podcasts, or the naturopaths who have always relied who have all learned "to do their own research" from their social media bubble.
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Old 09-28-2021, 11:56 AM   #3351
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France's vaccination rate is basically identical to Canada's. 75% of the overall population has 1+ doses and 87% of the 12+ population does (Canada is 77% and 88% in those stats). Japan's is currently lower at 70% of the whole population, but that's because their rollout has been slow. In the last 4 months they've consistently done about 3% of their population per week and they're not showing any signs of slowing down yet, so they'll likely match Canada as well.
Earlier in the year, both France and Japan had much higher rates of people saying they would delay or not get a covid vaccine than Canadians have ever expressed. Franceís rates only jumped once they imposed some the strongest restrictions on the unvaccinated in the world.
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Old 09-28-2021, 12:08 PM   #3352
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https://twitter.com/user/status/1442871644196773888

Huh, I guess we don't need help anymore...
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Old 09-28-2021, 12:12 PM   #3353
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I guess Kenny's plan is if he's going down, so is the province.

Scorched earth; bold strategy.
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Old 09-28-2021, 12:15 PM   #3354
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Stop making fake vaccine cards....Or else.
Or else will repeat this but...more sternly.
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Old 09-28-2021, 12:23 PM   #3355
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I guess Kenny's plan is if he's going down, so is the province.

Scorched earth; bold strategy.

If he wants to screw over his own party, he should hold an election. That might be a win-win.
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Old 09-28-2021, 12:30 PM   #3356
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Meanwhile, JT is offering more help but I'm sure Kenney will turn that down as well. It's all good guys, we got this. We'll use some of that Alberta freedom lovin' attitude to get ourselves out of this.

https://twitter.com/user/status/1442910081562017796
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Old 09-28-2021, 12:34 PM   #3357
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Exactly this.

A good majority of people who are scared of the vaccine aren't dumb, or selfish or uneducated.

They are scared because the ####ing internet and social media and the associated algorithms are designed to scare the #### out of them.

You aren't going to help those people by vilifying and isolating them. Compassion and understanding may help.

This toxic loop of people on this thread losing their collective mind and forgetting this is not helping. Wishing harm on people who are scared doesn't make you cool or intelligent. It makes you #######s.

Edit: I quoted this post because I was agreeing with the comment, not directing my comments at this person.
I think you are right about vilifying and isolating not helping them. But I don't think there is anything to suggest there is a strategy of compassion and understanding that can help move the needle either.

Any efforts to persuade the unvaccinated would probably be mostly fruit-less at this point. So what's the answer? In the US, we have to either accept that we have a death toll of preventable deaths equivalent to 9/11 every second day, or just force everyone to get vaccinated.

If we go the acceptance route, people are going to be angry that so many of their health care dollars are going to treat the unvaccinated, and that they or their loved ones are going to be denied health care they need due to the unvaccinated.
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Old 09-28-2021, 12:37 PM   #3358
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I don’t know about “forced” vaccination, but coerced, yes.

Financial motivations (higher taxes and insurance premiums on unvaxxed, etc) and limits on freedom to do activities are what will coerce many to get on board.
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Old 09-28-2021, 12:37 PM   #3359
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I think you are right about vilifying and isolating not helping them. But I don't think there is anything to suggest there is a strategy of compassion and understanding that can help move the needle either.

Any efforts to persuade the unvaccinated would probably be mostly fruit-less at this point. So what's the answer? In the US, we have to either accept that we have a death toll of preventable deaths equivalent to 9/11 every second day, or just force everyone to get vaccinated.

If we go the acceptance route, people are going to be angry that so many of their health care dollars are going to treat the unvaccinated, and that they or their loved ones are going to be denied health care they need due to the unvaccinated.
How do you propose we "force" people to get vaccinated? And do you think that will actually work?
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Old 09-28-2021, 12:42 PM   #3360
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How do you propose we "force" people to get vaccinated? And do you think that will actually work?
To go to school, get a job, get unemployment and health care, people should need to be vaccinated. Some states are going that route, and our democrat governor is running on that strategy.

There aren't many tools left to get the numbers up to the percentage needed. Vaccine passports would have to have way more teeth and be much more widespread to get numbers where they need to be to save lives.

The alternative is just to accept it, which is the direction a lot of places seem to be heading. I think coercion and persuasion has gone as far as it can.
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