06-18-2021, 02:16 PM
|
#1601
|
Franchise Player
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by dino7c
People store gold, consider what it takes to get gold out of the ground then it is placed in a vault, buried in a yard, or made into a toilet
|
OK, that doesn't change the fact that Bitcoin can't possibly replace the global banking system based on energy consumption, or that any comparison in regards to that would make any sense, because Bitcoin only covers a small portion of what banks do. And as I've shown, it's incredibly inefficient at processing transactions(by design, I might point out). Not only in power consumption, but also cost and speed.
If you want to argue the pointlessness of mining gold for the sole purpose of storing value(beyond it's value as an industrial metal and jewelry) and how that relates to the cost of mining a bitcoin, well that's an argument that you could make and would actually make sense. You can show the math on that one.
|
|
|
06-18-2021, 05:30 PM
|
#1602
|
Franchise Player
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fuzz
OK, that doesn't change the fact that Bitcoin can't possibly replace the global banking system based on energy consumption, or that any comparison in regards to that would make any sense, because Bitcoin only covers a small portion of what banks do. And as I've shown, it's incredibly inefficient at processing transactions(by design, I might point out). Not only in power consumption, but also cost and speed.
If you want to argue the pointlessness of mining gold for the sole purpose of storing value(beyond it's value as an industrial metal and jewelry) and how that relates to the cost of mining a bitcoin, well that's an argument that you could make and would actually make sense. You can show the math on that one.
|
what is the point of gold jewelry? showing off your wealth?
My argument makes sense because its stupid to pick one thing and say "hey this uses more energy than such and such a city"
You could do that with almost anything. Crypto changes and evolves, that is kinda the point. It needs to and will get greener. Gold mining? not so much.
The argument is don't be a hypocrite.
__________________
GFG
|
|
|
06-18-2021, 05:31 PM
|
#1603
|
Powerplay Quarterback
Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: Calgary
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fuzz
...because you can't use Bitcoin to manage your mortgage, or loan you money.
|
It can and will do so much more than that. Look into decentralized finance (DeFi) and asset tokenization, I think you'll be impressed. Inside magazine published a good article on it written be staff from Deloitte, my pdf of it says issue 19, I'm not sure when it was published, but it does a good analysis of the challenges ahead for blockchain tech to be the major multi-sector disruptive force that so many people think it will be.
|
|
|
The Following User Says Thank You to karl262 For This Useful Post:
|
|
06-18-2021, 05:39 PM
|
#1604
|
Franchise Player
|
I was referring to Bitcoin, not any other crypto or blockchain.
|
|
|
06-18-2021, 05:42 PM
|
#1605
|
Franchise Player
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by dino7c
what is the point of gold jewelry? showing off your wealth?
My argument makes sense because its stupid to pick one thing and say "hey this uses more energy than such and such a city"
You could do that with almost anything. Crypto changes and evolves, that is kinda the point. It needs to and will get greener. Gold mining? not so much.
The argument is don't be a hypocrite.
|
Do you have a reference for your comparison that Bitcoin uses less energy than gold used to store value?
That seems like a reasonable comparison to compare the KW/$ spent on the Minimg, storage and transfer of gold used for no purpose other than storage of value vs Bitcoin.
Edit: this article suggests that 127 TWH of electricity are used for Bitcoin vs 137 TWH for gold yet the market capitalization of gold is 10x that of Bitcoin. Ignoring other gold uses that suggests that per dollar of value stored Bitcoin is 10 times less efficient.
https://www.google.ca/amp/s/www.forb...hos-right/amp/
And banking which essentially processes the rest of the worlds GDP is 140 TWH. So in terms of KW/$ Bitcoin is not close
Also gold mining will get more energy efficient overtime or the cost of gold will go up increasing market cap and decreasing KW/$ of stores value.
Last edited by GGG; 06-18-2021 at 05:50 PM.
|
|
|
The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to GGG For This Useful Post:
|
|
06-18-2021, 06:03 PM
|
#1606
|
Franchise Player
Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: Somewhere down the crazy river.
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by dino7c
what is the point of gold jewelry? showing off your wealth?
My argument makes sense because its stupid to pick one thing and say "hey this uses more energy than such and such a city"
You could do that with almost anything. Crypto changes and evolves, that is kinda the point. It needs to and will get greener. Gold mining? not so much.
The argument is don't be a hypocrite.
|
Gold is only used in jewelry? Take a look at your video card or any electronic device.
|
|
|
06-18-2021, 10:20 PM
|
#1608
|
Franchise Player
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by Wormius
Gold is only used in jewelry? Take a look at your video card or any electronic device.
|
Who said that?
__________________
GFG
|
|
|
06-18-2021, 10:21 PM
|
#1609
|
Franchise Player
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by Oling_Roachinen
I was surprised its other usages was so high actually. I'm assuming that's for newly mined gold as Indian families alone account for something like 15% of gold with their jewelry.
|
So half of all gold is used for vanity
__________________
GFG
|
|
|
06-18-2021, 11:10 PM
|
#1610
|
Franchise Player
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: east van
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by dino7c
So half of all gold is used for vanity
|
so Solomon was wrong?
|
|
|
06-18-2021, 11:23 PM
|
#1611
|
Franchise Player
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: east van
|
Just to throw in my 2 cents worth, its important to realise Bitcoin requires all the energy for mining....and then on top of that in order to be useful also requires a full banking infrastructure with all of the energy requirements of our regular banking system, bitcoin cannot replaces banks, it needs them even more than gold or cash.
Bitcoin isnt competing with banks, its competing with cash, bitcoin cant give you a mortgage or hold on to your RRSP, you might use bitcoin one day to pay your mortgage but bitcoin does absolutely nothing to replace the banking system.
|
|
|
06-18-2021, 11:39 PM
|
#1612
|
Franchise Player
Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: Somewhere down the crazy river.
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by dino7c
Who said that?
|
What were you implying then?
|
|
|
06-18-2021, 11:39 PM
|
#1613
|
Franchise Player
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by afc wimbledon
Just to throw in my 2 cents worth, its important to realise Bitcoin requires all the energy for mining....and then on top of that in order to be useful also requires a full banking infrastructure with all of the energy requirements of our regular banking system, bitcoin cannot replaces banks, it needs them even more than gold or cash.
Bitcoin isnt competing with banks, its competing with cash, bitcoin cant give you a mortgage or hold on to your RRSP, you might use bitcoin one day to pay your mortgage but bitcoin does absolutely nothing to replace the banking system.
|
Its certainly competing with gold as a store of value
BTC must be above 40k when the argument moves from I told you so its going to crash to zero to "but the environment"
__________________
GFG
Last edited by dino7c; 06-18-2021 at 11:45 PM.
|
|
|
06-18-2021, 11:44 PM
|
#1614
|
Franchise Player
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by Wormius
What were you implying then?
|
I was replying to a comment that mentioned Jewelry as a practical use of gold...electronics I will give you. I am not against gold, just pointing out how hypocritical it is to pretend the environment is why you don't like crypto.
__________________
GFG
|
|
|
06-18-2021, 11:59 PM
|
#1615
|
Franchise Player
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: east van
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by dino7c
Its certainly competing with gold as a store of value
BTC must be above 40k when the argument moves from I told you so its going to crash to zero to "but the environment"
|
I have no idea whether the environment ends up being a problem for bitcoin, I was just pointing out how farcical it is to argue that you can compare bitcoins energy use with regular banking as if it could replace banks, bitcoin is the most banking system reliant store of value that we have ever seen, I can take a gold ring into the upper reaches of the Amazon a thousand miles from the nearest phone or internet connection and swap them with a complete stranger for a hotel room, a bottle of hooch and a hooker, that is why people buy Gold jewelry, get gold fillings in their teeth even, in a pinch you can trade it.
|
|
|
06-19-2021, 06:43 AM
|
#1616
|
Franchise Player
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by dino7c
I was replying to a comment that mentioned Jewelry as a practical use of gold...electronics I will give you. I am not against gold, just pointing out how hypocritical it is to pretend the environment is why you don't like crypto.
|
Is the argument it’s bad for the environment so it should be banned or is it Bitcoin won’t scale because of energy consumption and therefore transaction cost and that creates a limited max value and makes substitution more likely.
|
|
|
06-19-2021, 06:47 AM
|
#1617
|
Franchise Player
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Marseilles Of The Prairies
|
I'm not even sure what the argument is for Bitcoin. It's a useless gold hedge that doesn't even perform any kind of basic function other than Proof of Concept, which it fulfilled as a purpose 10 years ago.
__________________
Quote:
Originally Posted by MrMastodonFarm
Settle down there, Temple Grandin.
|
|
|
|
The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to PsYcNeT For This Useful Post:
|
|
06-19-2021, 07:31 AM
|
#1618
|
Our Jessica Fletcher
|
Entirely out of curiosity, does anyone know what the approximate breakeven value is of BTC for mining operations? Are they still making money @ $30k BTC?
|
|
|
06-19-2021, 03:46 PM
|
#1619
|
Franchise Player
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: Hyperbole Chamber
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by Wormius
What were you implying then?
|
Bitcoin to a million and on power run by a couple hamster wheels.
|
|
|
06-19-2021, 06:58 PM
|
#1620
|
Franchise Player
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by The Fonz
Entirely out of curiosity, does anyone know what the approximate breakeven value is of BTC for mining operations? Are they still making money @ $30k BTC?
|
Isn’t it self adjusting in difficulty based on combined hash rate of all miners? Essentially the most energy efficient miners will always be profitable. What changes is the energy consumption of the marginal miner.
|
|
|
Posting Rules
|
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts
HTML code is Off
|
|
|
All times are GMT -6. The time now is 07:30 PM.
|
|