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Old 02-28-2021, 06:16 PM   #61
ricardodw
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Not saying that at all.

It's far enough into the season that he needs to cut the rope and fall back to whatever works. It's just a shame that there does not appear to be more options and more flexibility with this roster. This team doesn't have a Matthews, McDavid, or MacKinnon. Players that are going to pull through no matter what. On paper, this team's strength is supposed to be it's depth and deployment options. In reality, it hasn't played out that way which is unfortunate. I think it's time to turn the page and a roster shake-up is needed, but it won't be easy to make big changes this year.
There are only so many quality players on each team in a cap. The Flames spent all their cap space on 9 forwards (includes Ryan and Lucic) 4 d-men and 2 goalies...

their depth is Dube and Valimaki. (ELC) The high paid players are not able to carry the slugs filling in the roster.
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Old 02-28-2021, 06:21 PM   #62
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I agree with all of that. It’s why, while I think Ward can easily be improved upon, saying it was “crazy” he was starting Lindholm at C was something I pushed back against. Not only did it make some sense on paper, the Flames’ first three games looked fine. Then they had a break and played the top two teams in the division at the the time, losing close games to Toronto in which Monahan and Gaudreau were still producing.

I agree they should keep the present lineup for a while, but if they can ever find a good two way RW to take Lindholm’s spot, Lindholm should be a C.
The Flames first 3 games they scored 4 goals even strength when the goalie was in the net. From a production standpoint, that was one of the worst 3 game stretch of the season for those new lines. I get why he tried it, but when it did not work for the first 3 games of the season, then it did not work for the first 4 games back from the break and then with the exception of one game against Edmonton it did not work for the next 14 games one would have thought they would have tried something different. I personally was a little baffled as to why it took 21 games to determine that those lines were unproductive on the ice. Especially when every other team was able to light up the division 5 on 5. It is not like the Canadian division is filled with a bunch of defensive stalwarts. May those lines hopefully RIP.

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Old 02-28-2021, 06:33 PM   #63
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I truly donít understand this.

Have you seen the body of work the first 21 games?

I am far from disappointed, rather I am pleased that Ward seems to have finally come to his senses.
I understand the change based on the first 21 games and understand it's like the best situation given the roster right now, the division standings, the difficulty of making trades this year etc.

My disappointment is not that the lines were changed right now, it's more on a macro scale that we find ourselves with almost the exact same top 6 as the last 2 seasons despite that not working.

FlamesAddisction's post below basically states what I would have replied to your post; I agree with it entirely.

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It's far enough into the season that he needs to cut the rope and fall back to whatever works. It's just a shame that there does not appear to be more options and more flexibility with this roster. This team doesn't have a Matthews, McDavid, or MacKinnon. Players that are going to pull through no matter what. On paper, this team's strength is supposed to be it's depth and deployment options. In reality, it hasn't played out that way which is unfortunate. I think it's time to turn the page and a roster shake-up is needed, but it won't be easy to make big changes this year.
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Old 02-28-2021, 07:37 PM   #64
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The Flames first 3 games they scored 4 goals even strength when the goalie was in the net. From a production standpoint, that was one of the worst 3 game stretch of the season for those new lines. I get why he tried it, but when it did not work for the first 3 games of the season, then it did not work for the first 4 games back from the break and then with the exception of one game against Edmonton it did not work for the next 14 games one would have thought they would have tried something different. I personally was a little baffled as to why it took 21 games to determine that those lines were unproductive on the ice. Especially when every other team was able to light up the division 5 on 5. It is not like the Canadian division is filled with a bunch of defensive stalwarts. May those lines hopefully RIP.
Well, the Monahan Gaudreau connection scored ES in each of the first three games IIRC. But you actually think 3 games is enough of a test? And you folks accuse Ward of having a blender? Or past coaches of not giving Bennett enough of a shot on a top line? Chemistry isnít usually instant.
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Old 02-28-2021, 07:44 PM   #65
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I understand the change based on the first 21 games and understand it's like the best situation given the roster right now, the division standings, the difficulty of making trades this year etc.

My disappointment is not that the lines were changed right now, it's more on a macro scale that we find ourselves with almost the exact same top 6 as the last 2 seasons despite that not working.

FlamesAddisction's post below basically states what I would have replied to your post; I agree with it entirely.

I understand the wish for something better

First comment is that last year Tkachuk was out, and the year before, Monahan had a broken thumb, Neal was a detriment and they didnít have Lucic either, whose heavy game can help in the post season

Having said that, I also propose that the premise of spreading out talent is, shall we say, not perfect. Tre said they thought they liked Johnny and Monny as a pair. They thought that if they had Lindholm and Backlund on separate lines, they may be able to exploit some matchups with 13 and 23

Consider the normal line sets scoring 1, scoring 2, checking 3rd and 4th energy

So the masterminds were thinking that they could put Backlund and Lindholm against the other teamís top scoring lines and then put 13 and 23 with a scrub against the other teamís checking line? Setting 13 and 23 up to have an internal headwind while playing in to the oppositionís desired matchup? Bravo

I prefer to see what the three lines with established chemistry can accomplish

Hopefully they work as I expect and hopefully they stick
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Old 02-28-2021, 07:56 PM   #66
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Well, the Monahan Gaudreau connection scored ES in each of the first three games IIRC. But you actually think 3 games is enough of a test? And you folks accuse Ward of having a blender? Or past coaches of not giving Bennett enough of a shot on a top line? Chemistry isn’t usually instant.
I could understand 5 games, maybe 10 games tops, but not 21. The Flames did not score an even strength goal in the second game, but I think that line scored in the first and third game.

The Flames had 15 even strength goals with a goalie in the net in the first 10 games. That is awful by almost any standard, yet they kept trying those same lines for another 11 games. The pace they were on at even strength in the first 10 games, even if you add the empty netter in game 3, would have placed them second last in the NHL last year, only ahead of the Detroit Red Wings. In 18/19 it would have placed them dead last. In 17/18 it would have placed them second last. If I was the coach, I would have pulled the plug after the 10th game, based on those comparable alone.
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Old 02-28-2021, 09:26 PM   #67
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I could understand 5 games, maybe 10 games tops, but not 21. The Flames did not score an even strength goal in the second game, but I think that line scored in the first and third game.

The Flames had 15 even strength goals with a goalie in the net in the first 10 games. That is awful by almost any standard, yet they kept trying those same lines for another 11 games. The pace they were on at even strength in the first 10 games, even if you add the empty netter in game 3, would have placed them second last in the NHL last year, only ahead of the Detroit Red Wings. In 18/19 it would have placed them dead last. In 17/18 it would have placed them second last. If I was the coach, I would have pulled the plug after the 10th game, based on those comparable alone.
Youíd never expect a new line to have the same pace over an extended period of time.

Anyway, last year they scored a bunch of ES goals off the bat (mainly because they played bad teams). Against the very few good teams they played (Col, Vegas, Dallas, SJ), ES goals were like 1-2 per game. And in a reverse, they were bad on the PP. 5 goals in 10 games, and actually only scoring any in 3 games.

Iím all for continuing with the present setup for the indefinite future but the team is flawed unless they address it by the POs.
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Old 02-28-2021, 10:06 PM   #68
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You’d never expect a new line to have the same pace over an extended period of time.

Anyway, last year they scored a bunch of ES goals off the bat (mainly because they played bad teams). Against the very few good teams they played (Col, Vegas, Dallas, SJ), ES goals were like 1-2 per game. And in a reverse, they were bad on the PP. 5 goals in 10 games, and actually only scoring any in 3 games.

I’m all for continuing with the present setup for the indefinite future but the team is flawed unless they address it by the POs.
Well SJ was awful last year, but against the top 9 teams (I will leave out Edmonton who was in the top 10 but nobody would want them included) the Flames scored 37 even strength goals in 21 games. This is more than they scored in the first 21 games against the powerhouse that is the Canadian division. I suspect the Flames average of 1.76 even strength goals per game against those teams is right around the average for the league against those 9 teams.

Christ, we have scored 10 even strength goals in 6 games against the Canucks for an average of 1.67 even strength goals per game and two of those goals were scored one second after a penalty had expired.

Against all other teams not named Ottawa the Canucks have given up 51 even strength goals in 15 games for an average of 3.4 even strength goals a game.

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Old 03-01-2021, 12:14 AM   #69
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Well SJ was awful last year, but against the top 9 teams (I will leave out Edmonton who was in the top 10 but nobody would want them included) the Flames scored 37 even strength goals in 21 games. This is more than they scored in the first 21 games against the powerhouse that is the Canadian division. I suspect the Flames average of 1.76 even strength goals per game against those teams is right around the average for the league against those 9 teams.

Christ, we have scored 10 even strength goals in 6 games against the Canucks for an average of 1.67 even strength goals per game and two of those goals were scored one second after a penalty had expired.

Against all other teams not named Ottawa the Canucks have given up 51 even strength goals in 15 games for an average of 3.4 even strength goals a game.
This is not all down to lines. The players have been bad as well.

Iím tired of repeating it, but Iím fine with these lines for now. They are too easy to defend when the going gets tough.
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