Safe Injection Sites approved for edm, Cgy announcement tba

[Fuzz]

Originally Posted by ken0042

I ask the following in the hopes of understanding the situation a little better. Don't most of these addicts start out by taking drugs by choice? Or are we talking about people who already had serious mental issues, and began to self medicate?

From what I understand, a lot of the opioid addiction starts from prescriptions that then expire, and the people are hooked, and end up going to street drugs for the same high. Once you are addicted to something, I can't really agree that it's an open choice.

[PaperBagger'14]

Originally Posted by Fuzz

From what I understand, a lot of the opioid addiction starts from prescriptions that then expire, and the people are hooked, and end up going to street drugs for the same high. Once you are addicted to something, I can't really agree that it's an open choice.

That's what I've heard anecdotally as well, but I truthfully dont buy into it. I'd venture a guess that if there even is data out there to read, that it would be the same old rabbit hole as other drugs.

You also have a choice what drugs you put into your body, if a doctor suggests oxy's, you're allowed to ask for something else instead. It all comes down to at least 1 singular choice for most addictions.

[Fuzz]

I guess the other option is to believe people want to end up living on the streets with their only goal in life to get to the next fix, and doing some pretty dastardly things to get there. I can't bring myself to believe that is the case though. No one CHOOSES to live life that way. Which leaves me with the other option, in that it is not their choice.

[Ped]

Originally Posted by Fuzz

I guess the other option is to believe people want to end up living on the streets with their only goal in life to get to the next fix, and doing some pretty dastardly things to get there. I can't bring myself to believe that is the case though. No one CHOOSES to live life that way. Which leaves me with the other option, in that it is not their choice.

I doubt anyone goes into it wanting that, but I think there are some that think they can handle it, or it won't get that bad for them, or they'll just try it - even when knowing the dangers.


We tend to minimize our weaknesses when it comes to stuff like that.

[you&me]

Originally Posted by PaperBagger'14

That's what I've heard anecdotally as well, but I truthfully dont buy into it. I'd venture a guess that if there even is data out there to read, that it would be the same old rabbit hole as other drugs.

You also have a choice what drugs you put into your body, if a doctor suggests oxy's, you're allowed to ask for something else instead. It all comes down to at least 1 singular choice for most addictions.

There are some very damning articles about the proliferation of opioids.

That said, I think the cases of Suzy homemaker inadvertently becoming addicted to opiods while recovering from surgery are a drop in the bucket compared to the 'regular' street users that have migrated to opioids from less potent alternatives... In other words, whether opioids or not, the majority of opioid users would still be using something, but now, it's worse...

[PaperBagger'14]

Originally Posted by Fuzz

I guess the other option is to believe people want to end up living on the streets with their only goal in life to get to the next fix, and doing some pretty dastardly things to get there. I can't bring myself to believe that is the case though. No one CHOOSES to live life that way. Which leaves me with the other option, in that it is not their choice.

Then I gotta ask, how do we end up with addicts to all of the other drugs with no medical uses? Never has their been a prescription for crack or meth issued, yet there are people addicted to those drugs.

There is more than 2 options for why addicts start their drug. The first time I ever smoked pot as a teenager I knew absolutely none of the risks but still did it anyway. I was fortunate there wasnt a physical addiction to it, but you play stupid games and you win stupid prizes.

[GullFoss]

If I was a drug dealer the best location to deal in would br the SIS. Straight up - I'd get a cover job giving away needles and sell drugs on the side.

It would kind of be like McDonald's. Instead of saying "do you want fries with that burger?" I'd say "do u want drugs with that syringe?"

[KTrain]

Originally Posted by GullFoss

If I was a drug dealer the best location to deal in would br the SIS. Straight up - I'd get a cover job giving away needles and sell drugs on the side.

It would kind of be like McDonald's. Instead of saying "do you want fries with that burger?" I'd say "do u want drugs with that syringe?"

You could also take their keys away and not give them back until they purchased drugs from you.

[GGG]

The needle problem should be easily solvable. Pay the users to clean up after
Themselves.

How many pop cans are in downtown garbage cans? For 10 cents a can we greatly improve the recycling rate.

[cracher]

Originally Posted by PaperBagger'14

Then I gotta ask, how do we end up with addicts to all of the other drugs with no medical uses? Never has their been a prescription for crack or meth issued, yet there are people addicted to those drugs.

There is more than 2 options for why addicts start their drug. The first time I ever smoked pot as a teenager I knew absolutely none of the risks but still did it anyway. I was fortunate there wasnt a physical addiction to it, but you play stupid games and you win stupid prizes.

Both of your examples are in use. Crack is a cocaine variant which is (maybe? used in eyes) and a common trade name for meth is Desoxyn.


But I get what you're asking. Different drugs, but the "void" left by them can be filled by others. Get hooked on oxy, stop feeling bad with heroin or meth. The neurochemical releases are not that different despite being different drugs.

[monkeyman]

Originally Posted by GGG

The needle problem should be easily solvable. Pay the users to clean up after
Themselves.

How many pop cans are in downtown garbage cans? For 10 cents a can we greatly improve the recycling rate.

Maybe we can hook a Rickshaw up to them too? I'm kidding, for some reason that popped into my head.

I question whether the majority of users would care enough about the 10 cents to actually take the time to properly dispose of the needles. I'm almost certain the last thing on a addicts mind is 10 cents immediately after his fix. Incentivising the collection may also open up other liabilities and increased risks to those desperate enough to go looking for and collect them to cash in without proper training, equipment or knowledge. It could also increase the number of stolen new and used needles from doctors offices and clinics.

[GGG]

I like the Rickshaw idea.

I would say the same thins about cans yet you have people who are full time pickers. The user doesn’t need to be the person returning the needle. You are correct that there would be some safety / liability stuff to work out.

However providing income for people unable to have conventional jobs, incentivizing the behaviour you want to see, and cleaning up one of the big safety issues around these sites seems like an easy win.

[PaperBagger'14]

Originally Posted by cracher

Both of your examples are in use. Crack is a cocaine variant which is (maybe? used in eyes) and a common trade name for meth is Desoxyn.


But I get what you're asking. Different drugs, but the "void" left by them can be filled by others. Get hooked on oxy, stop feeling bad with heroin or meth. The neurochemical releases are not that different despite being different drugs.

You sound like you have more insight to provide than me (no sarcasm, being honest), from your understanding how do most people become addicted to the "harder" drugs?

[Nage Waza]

Did anyone mention a needle deposit program? Let them take the needles, and give them cash if they return them.

[monkeyman]

Originally Posted by GGG

I like the Rickshaw idea.

I would say the same thins about cans yet you have people who are full time pickers. The user doesn’t need to be the person returning the needle. You are correct that there would be some safety / liability stuff to work out.

However providing income for people unable to have conventional jobs, incentivizing the behaviour you want to see, and cleaning up one of the big safety issues around these sites seems like an easy win.

do you really want to encourage people to go around collecting infectious materials, designed to penetrate the human skin? Encouraging the most desperate, vulnerable just seems like you're setting yourself up for something really bad to happen.
Also, don't they hand them out for free? I can imagine the number of needles distributed would increase dramatically if you gave them away for free and paid money to get them back.

[btimbit]

Originally Posted by Nage Waza

Did anyone mention a needle deposit program? Let them take the needles, and give them cash if they return them.

Only problem I can see with that is other people picking up used needles off the street to return them for the money

[GGG]

How about needle exchange then. Need a dirty needle to get a free clean needle.

Vancouver showed significant harm reduction wth this approach and had more dirty needles than clean needles come in.

Or a $1 needle program and you get a Clean needle rather than money when you bring one back.

Small monetary incentives should solve this problem.

I agree there are trade offs to each of these programs but the current trade off is needles on the streets in these communities posing a risk to all people in the areaz

[powderjunkie]

Originally Posted by GGG

How about needle exchange then. Need a dirty needle to get a free clean needle.

Vancouver showed significant harm reduction wth this approach and had more dirty needles than clean needles come in.

Or a $1 needle program and you get a Clean needle rather than money when you bring one back.

Small monetary incentives should solve this problem.

I agree there are trade offs to each of these programs but the current trade off is needles on the streets in these communities posing a risk to all people in the areaz

IF there is a compelling enough reason for needles to leave the site, then this seems like a pretty good idea as a pre-requisite for taking a needle away.

I don't think it's unreasonable to compel a choice between: using a clean needle IN the site vs. using a dirty needle outside the site. If someone is opting for the latter, then it would seem pretty darn close to a lost cause.

[Winsor_Pilates]

I feel for the residents and business owners in the area.

My business in Vancouver got broken into Friday night around 4am by some "low life junkies".
Cased the place for 45 minutes while the alarm was going off and took my iMac.
When the police came the next day, they laughingly commented about how it's likely someone for the rehab housing 2 blocks over.

These same officers took 1 hour to respond to our alarm during the incident, despite us being 2 blocks from the City's main police station .
Presumably they were too busy with other "low life junkies" on a Friday night around the city.

It really got me thinking about how much resources are dedicated to these people. Safe needle sites, social housing in high demand areas, police and other first responders completely unable to deal with the scope of these problems and then completely unavailable to help the rest of us when we need them.

As a business owner or resident who can't even get police to help you, it really makes you a bit jaded.
It's like you're paying enormous taxes to support a system that screws you right back.

No one's gonna help that restaurant owner who busted his ass to start a business and employ people, and can't even get lunch patrons anymore.
No one's gonna help people who's property values suffer.
No one's gonna help parents who are worried about their children picking up used needles.

On the other hand, I think I'm an empathetic person and do want to see people recover from addictions, have a roof over their head and food on the table.

I guess I'm just rambling and venting a bit, but what is the solution!?
It's frustrating that the only victims who get resources are the drug addicts, but they're really not the only victims in all of this.

[GullFoss]

Originally Posted by KTrain

You could also take their keys away and not give them back until they purchased drugs from you.

Now to figure out if zero, one or two of these things actually happened