2018/2019 Trade Speculation and Rumors

[Strange Brew]

Sure but getting healthy scratched a few times last year means he has something to prove this year. CP didn’t scratch him, and doesn’t sound like he was adding any value to the Zucker trade.

[FlamesAddiction]

I can't help but feel that Frolik is really underappreciated by many. He lived up to his contract and seemed to fit in. Maybe it's more of an indictment on the rest of the team, but he is one of the grittier forwards we have as well.

[chedder]

Originally Posted by FlamesAddiction

I can't help but feel that Frolik is really underappreciated by many. He lived up to his contract and seemed to fit in. Maybe it's more of an indictment on the rest of the team, but he is one of the grittier forwards we have as well.

Agree he's not butter soft (maybe fridge temp butter) but if he's considered one of our grittier players we are never getting out of the first round.

[Karl]

Originally Posted by Strange Brew

Sure but getting healthy scratched a few times last year means he has something to prove this year. CP didn’t scratch him, and doesn’t sound like he was adding any value to the Zucker trade.

Yes, Neal if he somehow bounces back is a better hitter and a slightly better scorer than Frolik, but Frolik is so much better in all other areas of hockey than Neal is that it's no contest.

The real point here is that Frolik is clear as day a much better overall hockey player than James Neal. Full stop.

In any case you can't be confident on Neal bouncing back at this point or doing anything close to what he was supposed to be able to do. Just have to pray he can climb back up from the cliff a bit and maybe show that he's not totally done.

[Karl]

Originally Posted by Vinny01

He didn’t do it enough I year 1 as a Flames but Frolik is not and has not played a “tougher” game than Neal who has always been a physical and sneaky dirty player.

Unbelievable.

James Neal did NOTHING better than Frolik except play like a certifiably useless person, including in the playoffs where he was mostly responsible for 2 goals against on his own because he was too lazy and/or stupid to play defense.

Frolik is the better overall hockey player, but Flames are stuck with Neal.

[Strange Brew]

Originally Posted by Karl

Yes, Neal if he somehow bounces back is a better hitter and a slightly better scorer than Frolik, but Frolik is so much better in all other areas of hockey than Neal is that it's no contest.

The real point here is that Frolik is clear as day a much better overall hockey player than James Neal. Full stop.

In any case you can't be confident on Neal bouncing back at this point or doing anything close to what he was supposed to be able to do. Just have to pray he can climb back up from the cliff a bit and maybe show that he's not totally done.

What does Neal have to do with my comment at all?

[shutout]

Regarding a deal with the Leafs; Dubas is purportedly a big analytics user. Regardless of which side of the stupid debate that always ends up breaking out. You need to remember that the Leafs are not going to look at acquiring anybody that does not have some sort of favourable underlying metrics.

[Harry Lime]

Originally Posted by shutout

Regarding a deal with the Leafs; Dubas is purportedly a big analytics user. Regardless of which side of the stupid debate that always ends up breaking out. You need to remember that the Leafs are not going to look at acquiring anybody that does not have some sort of favourable underlying metrics.

Sooooo, Backlund for Matthews?

I don't see Calgary and Toronto trading. There are better options elsewhere for Calgary, unless Toronto offers a smokin' deal on something.

[ForeverFlameFan]

Originally Posted by FlamesAddiction

I can't help but feel that Frolik is really underappreciated by many. He lived up to his contract and seemed to fit in. Maybe it's more of an indictment on the rest of the team, but he is one of the grittier forwards we have as well.

I do like Frolik and want him to stay, and I truly think that losing him will hurt our 2-way play quite a bit. However, I am not sure if he even wants to stay here, especially with how his agent handled things. It's about as 50/50 as you can get with him staying or not. I hope he does, but I would not be shocked at all to see the guy getting moved.

[SeanCharles]

I think we have to trade Frolik for a few reasons:

- he and Peters dont seem to get along
- he likely made Treliving mad by his agent saying all that stuff in the media
- hes an upcoming UFA and is unlikely to re-sign
- he isnt a top 6 winger
- we have an abundance of top 9 left handed wingers and need to move some and acquire some righties to balance things out. Gaudreau, Tkachuk, Bennett, Mangiapane, Dube are more important lefties within the organization. If we want to add more balance by getting some righthand shots guys like Frolik and Neal dont really have a fit anymore.

Frolik has been a good soldier but the smart move would be to trade him for something we could use to get better.

[Scroopy Noopers]

Originally Posted by ForeverFlameFan

10m is a HUGE difference.

Not when they have played 11 seasons...

[RichKlit]

Anybody that argues 10 million dollars isn’t a huge difference is divorced from reality.

[the_only_turek_fan]

Any interest in adding Joonas Donskoi as a depth player?

He is a UFA.

[TheoFleury]

Originally Posted by the_only_turek_fan

Any interest in adding Joonas Donskoi as a depth player?



He is a UFA.

Decent player but will probably get 4-5m. Don't think he's in the budget with Neal and the buyouts there plus Tkachuk.

[the_only_turek_fan]

Originally Posted by FlamesAddiction

I can't help but feel that Frolik is really underappreciated by many. He lived up to his contract and seemed to fit in. Maybe it's more of an indictment on the rest of the team, but he is one of the grittier forwards we have as well.

He has been really good the 4 years he has been here. I hope he finishes out his deal here in CGY.

[The Cobra]

Originally Posted by RichKlit

Anybody that argues 10 million dollars isn’t a huge difference is divorced from reality.

It all depends on the context.

Your first $10M is very important.

Once you’ve secured $30m or so, it becomes less important.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

[TheScorpion]

Don't think Donskoi approaches 4-5 million. He's had a couple mediocre years and has done next-to-nothing in the playoffs. I could see him maybe getting a similar deal to Derek Ryan or maybe a little higher. Maybe 5 years. There are just a ton of better forwards at UFA this year.

[Svartsengi]

Frolik is tradeable I like him but he is not a top 6 forward. He is a good 3rd line guy and Flames have a number of guys that can play bottom 6. Move him for an asset. Flames are stuck with Neal hope he turns it around

[Parallex]

Originally Posted by Svartsengi

Frolik is tradeable I like him but he is not a top 6 forward.

I think you have an unrealistic view of what a top 6 forward is....

To avoid bias I put the numbers 1-31 into a random number generator and it came up with 11,15,19,25,30.

3-6 Forwards by average ice-time: Even Strength PPG% (Min 41 games played)

#11 Team: Carolina
Williams: 0.47
Teravainen: 0.57
Svechnikov: 0.30

#15 Team: Dallas
Faksa: 0.30
Comeau: 0.18
Janmark: 0.28

#19 Team: Florida
Dadonov: 0.64
Hoffman: 0.42
Vatrano: 0.38

#25 Team: No Good
Chiasson: 0.28
Kassian: 0.31
Lucic: 0.20

#30 Team: Los Angeles
Kempe: 0.29
Leipsic: 0.35
Lewis: 0.27

______________________________________

Frolik: 0.49


I think he clearly is a Top 6 Forward... If you want to say he's not a Top 3 Forward you'll get no argument from me but I think he's clearly a good 2nd line winger from a production standpoint.

[burnitdown]

Originally Posted by Parallex

I think you have an unrealistic view of what a top 6 forward is....

To avoid bias I put the numbers 1-31 into a random number generator and it came up with 11,15,19,25,30.

3-6 Forwards by average ice-time: Even Strength PPG% (Min 41 games played)

#11 Team: Carolina
Williams: 0.47
Teravainen: 0.57
Svechnikov: 0.30

#15 Team: Dallas
Faksa: 0.30
Comeau: 0.18
Janmark: 0.28

#19 Team: Florida
Dadonov: 0.64
Hoffman: 0.42
Vatrano: 0.38

#25 Team: No Good
Chiasson: 0.28
Kassian: 0.31
Lucic: 0.20

#30 Team: Los Angeles
Kempe: 0.29
Leipsic: 0.35
Lewis: 0.27

______________________________________

Frolik: 0.49


I think he clearly is a Top 6 Forward... If you want to say he's not a Top 3 Forward you'll get no argument from me but I think he's clearly a good 2nd line winger from a production standpoint.

I don't think your numbers really prove much. Randomly picking 5 teams doesn't eliminate bias, especially when you don't end up with any top 10 teams.

Also, using TOI of the 4th-6th ranked forwards from other teams is an odd way to find comparables, given Frolik wouldn't have been chosen from the Flames using this method (he was 7th in TOI).

Having said all that, I don't think your conclusion is that far off. He's a 35-45 point player and looking league-wide, that probably is enough to warrant a 2nd line job somewhere. Might be more of a 3rd line player on contending teams though, so his $4M salary is a bit prohibitive for those teams (which are the ones perhaps most likely interested in a guy like him).