Calgarypuck Forums - The Unofficial Calgary Flames Fan Community

Go Back   Calgarypuck Forums - The Unofficial Calgary Flames Fan Community > Main Forums > Fire on Ice: The Calgary Flames Forum

View Poll Results: Best guess for Tkachuk's contract result
8 @ 7M 10 1.61%
8 @ 8M 41 6.59%
8 @ 9M 21 3.38%
8 @ 10M 8 1.29%
7 @ 7M 21 3.38%
7 @ 8M 61 9.81%
7 @ 9M 19 3.05%
7 @ 10M 3 0.48%
6 @ 6M 4 0.64%
6 @ 7M 48 7.72%
6 @ 8M 126 20.26%
6 @ 9M 27 4.34%
5 @ 6M 3 0.48%
5 @ 7M 56 9.00%
5 @ 8M 66 10.61%
5 @ 9M 10 1.61%
4 @ 5M 1 0.16%
4 @ 6M 4 0.64%
4 @ 7M 19 3.05%
3 @ 4M 2 0.32%
3 @ 5M 4 0.64%
3 @ 6M 46 7.40%
2 @ 4M 3 0.48%
2 @ 5M 15 2.41%
1 @ 4M 1 0.16%
1 @ 5M 3 0.48%
Voters: 622. You may not vote on this poll

Closed Thread
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old 07-16-2019, 11:44 AM   #541
Textcritic
Acerbic Cyberbully
 
Textcritic's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: back in Chilliwack
Exp:
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by The Cobra View Post
Exceptional point.

Tkachuk has been able to get lots of points playing with substandard line mates, other than when he gets PP time.

He,in fact, needs to drive the offense on his lines (other than PP time).

Considering that he's not the leading scorer on his teams, is actually more impressive.
I have little to add except to correct the assertion here: Mikael Backlund is not by any measure a "substandard" linemate, and no, Tkachuk does not "need to drive offense" on that line. I remain highly sceptical that Tkachuk's offensive output would improve significantly with regular deployment on the top line.
__________________
Dealing with Everything from Dead Sea Scrolls to Red C Trolls

Quote:
Originally Posted by woob
"...harem warfare? like all your wives dressup and go paintballing?"
"The Lying Pen of Scribes" Ancient Manuscript Forgeries Project
Textcritic is offline  
The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to Textcritic For This Useful Post:
Old 07-16-2019, 11:50 AM   #542
Textcritic
Acerbic Cyberbully
 
Textcritic's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: back in Chilliwack
Exp:
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by CN10 View Post
I like that the Tkachuk negotiation hasn't played out via the media as much as the Nylander & Aho one did (a function of the hold out and offer sheet respectively) and the Marner one is (a function of it being a Leaf player). It seems like nobody wants to be the first to sign (except Aho who looks like he wanted to get it done fast on his terms by using Montreal as a pawn). I feel like the Flames can probably wait a bit longer to get it done, but will probably want to be close to the final number ahead of signing Bennett & Rittich prior to their arbitration hearings.

Tkachuk is obviously a valuable player to the team and both his camp and Treliving know that. I just also think that it would be hard for the GM to say to the rest of the team that he is more valuable that Gaudreau and Giordano by giving him a higher % of cap hit. Both those guys signed for 9.25% of the cap for 6 years at the time they put pen to paper. I think that based on this the Flames offer is likely 6 x $7.54M which seems fair. If Tkachuk is pushing for less term which I expect he may be given his comments about the Mathews deal, I expect that the Flames will want to lower the cap hit and that is likely the sticking point. We can thank Dubas for paying UFA price for RFA years on the Mathews deal for complicating all RFA negotiations this off season.
Fortunately, Treliving does not have any obligation to consult nor offer explanations to anyone on the Flames roster for the deal he will negotiate with Tkachuk. But more to the point, I think it is fairly well established by now that players accept the reality of the current NHL marketplace: they are well enough aware of how quickly things change, and they can surely see that each player and every team is going to negotiate the deals that make the most sense on a case-by-case basis. Gaudreau and Giordano and Monahan know what's going on; they can see what Tkachuk is presently worth; they understand the current market and the type of deal that Treliving is working to consummate.
__________________
Dealing with Everything from Dead Sea Scrolls to Red C Trolls

Quote:
Originally Posted by woob
"...harem warfare? like all your wives dressup and go paintballing?"
"The Lying Pen of Scribes" Ancient Manuscript Forgeries Project
Textcritic is offline  
The Following User Says Thank You to Textcritic For This Useful Post:
Old 07-16-2019, 11:59 AM   #543
GranteedEV
Franchise Player
 
GranteedEV's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Calgary
Exp:
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by The Cobra
Tkachuk has been able to get lots of points playing with substandard line mates, other than when he gets PP time.
Uh



Backlund is not substandard. It's no coincidence that Bouma, Colborne, Bennett, and Tkachuk have all thrived on his wing in the past.

Frolik may not be the best third wheel, but very few lines have three great players, and finding the right fit is not easy; look how many years it took to find Lindholm for Gaudreau and Monahan and even then that line stopped clicking down the stretch.
__________________

"May those who accept their fate find happiness. May those who defy it find glory."

Last edited by GranteedEV; 07-16-2019 at 12:01 PM.
GranteedEV is offline  
The Following 13 Users Say Thank You to GranteedEV For This Useful Post:
Old 07-16-2019, 12:19 PM   #544
The Cobra
Franchise Player
 
Join Date: Jun 2017
Exp:
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Textcritic View Post
I have little to add except to correct the assertion here: Mikael Backlund is not by any measure a "substandard" linemate, and no, Tkachuk does not "need to drive offense" on that line. I remain highly sceptical that Tkachuk's offensive output would improve significantly with regular deployment on the top line.
Substandard was likely a bad choice of word for me to use. Backlund is obviously not a substandard hockey player.

But as top 6 offensive players go, he's certainly no where near the top of my list of players I want to play with on the Flames.

The Flames have 4 top offensively gifted players, and 3 played on one line and Tkachuk was by himself.
The Cobra is offline  
Old 07-16-2019, 12:23 PM   #545
TheScorpion
First round-bust
 
TheScorpion's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2015
Location: speculating about AHL players
Exp:
Default

Didn't Backlund have like 4 fewer 5v5 points than Tkachuk this year?

Put Backlund in Tkachuk's spot on PP1 and he probably surpasses 60 points, at least.
__________________
"This has been TheScorpion's shtick for years. All these hot takes, clickbait nonsense just to feed his social media algorithms." –Tuco

TheScorpion is offline  
Old 07-16-2019, 12:27 PM   #546
PepsiFree
Participant
Participant
 
PepsiFree's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2015
Exp:
Default

Yeah, there’s no argument to be made that Tkachuk’s linemates are “substandard.”

Tkachuk and Aho face roughly the same quality of competition with roughly the same quality of linemates (as far as the advanced stats go). Where Tkachuk has a distinct advantage as far as overall player goes, is he faces higher Corsi players than Aho more often and doesn’t start in the offensive zone nearly as much as Aho. Aho’s primary offensive advantage this season came in secondary assists. Otherwise they were similar in primary assists and Tkachuk had more goals.

The one and only true advantage Aho seems to have over Tkachuk is positional, otherwise they are extremely similar as far as output and quality of play. Does Tkachuk make up for it based on his grittier style of play and higher dependency in the defensive zone? I don’t know, probably not.

But any narrative that suggests one is far better than the other has no basis. They are two of the most comparable players you’re likely to find. Each with a few distinctions, but overall roughly the same.
PepsiFree is online now  
Old 07-16-2019, 12:30 PM   #547
Scroopy Noopers
Pent-up
 
Scroopy Noopers's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2018
Location: Plutanamo Bay.
Exp:
Default

Hell, Tkachuk playing with defensively minded players has probably given him more offensive freedom than he would have had playing on the top line.
Scroopy Noopers is offline  
The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to Scroopy Noopers For This Useful Post:
Old 07-16-2019, 12:36 PM   #548
Coach
Franchise Player
 
Coach's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Vancouver
Exp:
Default

Besides Backlund, Frolik has been no slouch in his time here either and has been an overall dependable part of one of the leagues better two-way lines. I know he's on his way out, and there was that weird thing with his agent, but it's mostly due to incoming cap issues than his play. It was a weird season for him with some healthy scratches, but when he came back from those he was always involved positively. And his experience I'm sure went a long way in helping Tkachuk grow as a player.

I think we will be parting ways with him at the right time, but he's one of the few UFA deals in recent memory (not just for the Flames, but really overall) that actually worked out fairly for both sides.
__________________
Coach is offline  
The Following 3 Users Say Thank You to Coach For This Useful Post:
Old 07-16-2019, 12:39 PM   #549
tkflames
First Line Centre
 
tkflames's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Exp:
Default

Well...I believe this Lomberg contract should set the floor for Tkachucks contract..
__________________
Go Flames Go
tkflames is offline  
The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to tkflames For This Useful Post:
Old 07-16-2019, 01:00 PM   #550
Textcritic
Acerbic Cyberbully
 
Textcritic's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: back in Chilliwack
Exp:
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by The Cobra View Post
Substandard was likely a bad choice of word for me to use. Backlund is obviously not a substandard hockey player.

But as top 6 offensive players go, he's certainly no where near the top of my list of players I want to play with on the Flames.
Well, you should be. Backlund has a consistent history of setting his line mates up for success, and Tkachuk is no exception.

Quote:
The Flames have 4 top offensively gifted players, and 3 played on one line and Tkachuk was by himself.
That may be true, but having Backlund as a centre is not some obstacle or detriment to Tkachuk’s ability to perform offensively. Like I said above, Tkachuk probably doesn’t do much better playing with Gaudreau/Monahan/Lindholm than he does with Backlund on his line.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
__________________
Dealing with Everything from Dead Sea Scrolls to Red C Trolls

Quote:
Originally Posted by woob
"...harem warfare? like all your wives dressup and go paintballing?"
"The Lying Pen of Scribes" Ancient Manuscript Forgeries Project
Textcritic is offline  
Old 07-16-2019, 01:07 PM   #551
GioforPM
Franchise Player
 
Join Date: Oct 2014
Location: Springbank
Exp:
Default

Backlund has scored between 45-53 points the last 4 years. St. Louis' 2C had 54 points this year. It's not earth shattering production, but on a good team it can get stuff done.
GioforPM is offline  
Old 07-16-2019, 01:49 PM   #552
ComixZone
Franchise Player
 
ComixZone's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Exp:
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by GioforPM View Post
Backlund has scored between 45-53 points the last 4 years. St. Louis' 2C had 54 points this year. It's not earth shattering production, but on a good team it can get stuff done.
A lot of talk this off-season has been around "where did Sean Monahan go in the playoffs", but Mikael Backlund's vanishing act was something that absolutely crushed us.

Backlund got absolutely decimated by the Avs during match-ups, and that really surprised me. I think we're going into a season where we're going to have a lot of highly motivated players - and Backlund is going to be one of those guys. I'm expecting huge seasons from the Tkachuk-Backlund duo.
ComixZone is offline  
The Following 6 Users Say Thank You to ComixZone For This Useful Post:
Old 07-16-2019, 02:30 PM   #553
Strange Brew
Franchise Player
 
Strange Brew's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Exp:
Default

Aho did nothing but help himself with his playoff performance. Tkachuk is in the something to prove side of that equation.

He should come in slightly less than Aho, no way around it IMO. It is all about term now is my guess..l

Yeah Flames are susceptible to an offer sheet which would pay Tkachuk above market value but I just don’t think NHL GM’s are generally in the business of doing that to each other.

Last edited by Strange Brew; 07-17-2019 at 02:07 AM.
Strange Brew is offline  
Old 07-16-2019, 03:38 PM   #554
CN10
Backup Goalie
 
CN10's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Calgary
Exp:
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Textcritic View Post
Fortunately, Treliving does not have any obligation to consult nor offer explanations to anyone on the Flames roster for the deal he will negotiate with Tkachuk. But more to the point, I think it is fairly well established by now that players accept the reality of the current NHL marketplace: they are well enough aware of how quickly things change, and they can surely see that each player and every team is going to negotiate the deals that make the most sense on a case-by-case basis. Gaudreau and Giordano and Monahan know what's going on; they can see what Tkachuk is presently worth; they understand the current market and the type of deal that Treliving is working to consummate.
I'm not implying that he would go down to the locker room to consult and explain the deal that is getting done with Tkachuk. I was implying that due to the public nature of NHL salaries and the cap system, it does the team chemistry a disservice if Treliving doesn't at least attempt to keep the % of cap hit in line with some of the other important players on the team who took a discount off their market price in order to field a better overall team. Of course Treliving and Tkachuk are free to do what's best for themselves in this specific case, I was merely bringing up what I believed would be the starting point to the negotiations.

Last edited by CN10; 07-16-2019 at 03:50 PM.
CN10 is offline  
Old 07-16-2019, 04:27 PM   #555
Textcritic
Acerbic Cyberbully
 
Textcritic's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: back in Chilliwack
Exp:
Default The Matthew Tkachuk contract negotiations

Quote:
Originally Posted by CN10 View Post
I'm not implying that he would go down to the locker room to consult and explain the deal that is getting done with Tkachuk. I was implying that due to the public nature of NHL salaries and the cap system, it does the team chemistry a disservice if Treliving doesn't at least attempt to keep the % of cap hit in line with some of the other important players on the team who took a discount off their market price in order to field a better overall team. Of course Treliving and Tkachuk are free to do what's best for themselves in this specific case, I was merely bringing up what I believed would be the starting point to the negotiations.
Yes. But I fundamentally disagree insofar as other players are concerned. No one on this team has taken a discount for the good of the team. Every player on the Flames roster has a good sense of what Tkachuk is worth and how much he will be paid. They understand how the League works, and I would be surprised if any one of them takes it personally when a teammate hammers out a good deal for himself.

The players know exactly how this works.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
__________________
Dealing with Everything from Dead Sea Scrolls to Red C Trolls

Quote:
Originally Posted by woob
"...harem warfare? like all your wives dressup and go paintballing?"
"The Lying Pen of Scribes" Ancient Manuscript Forgeries Project

Last edited by Textcritic; 07-16-2019 at 04:47 PM.
Textcritic is offline  
Old 07-24-2019, 05:11 PM   #556
SportsJunky
Uncle Chester
 
SportsJunky's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Exp:
Default

Elliotte Friedman was on NHL Tonight and said he’s hearing that the negotiations are going well and he expects Tkachuk to be signed by Calgary. He didn’t say “soon” but he was basically saying that it will get done as opposed to a holdout situation.
SportsJunky is offline  
The Following 9 Users Say Thank You to SportsJunky For This Useful Post:
Old 07-24-2019, 05:31 PM   #557
Heavy Jack
Franchise Player
 
Heavy Jack's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: In the studio
Exp:
Default

Ya hear that Dubas??? No holdout situations!
Heavy Jack is offline  
Old 07-24-2019, 05:55 PM   #558
FanIn80
GOAT!
 
FanIn80's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Exp:
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Heavy Jack View Post
Ya hear that Dubas??? No holdout situations!
On a side note, the fact his actual name isn't Dumbass just drives my OCD right up the wall. Like come on. It's so close. They couldn't just add the two more letters to their name so I don't have to force myself to not read it the way it looks?
FanIn80 is offline  
The Following User Says Thank You to FanIn80 For This Useful Post:
Old 07-24-2019, 06:01 PM   #559
getbak
Franchise Player
 
getbak's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Calgary, AB
Exp:
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by FanIn80 View Post
On a side note, the fact his actual name isn't Dumbass just drives my OCD right up the wall. Like come on. It's so close. They couldn't just add the two more letters to their name so I don't have to force myself to not read it the way it looks?
__________________
Turn up the good, turn down the suck!
getbak is online now  
The Following 3 Users Say Thank You to getbak For This Useful Post:
Old 07-24-2019, 06:02 PM   #560
GranteedEV
Franchise Player
 
GranteedEV's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Calgary
Exp:
Default

Lately I can't help but wonder if a one year deal makes a lot of sense here.

Calgary signs Tkachuk to an AAV that fits 2019-20 without moving out significant salary.

Calgary then has Frolik (4.5M), Jankowski(1.5M), Stone(3.5M), Hamonic(3.8M), Talbot (2.75M) all coming off the books in 2019 with only Tkachuk and Andersson as RFAs of real note (and maybe Kylington if he can be permitted to take the next step). Of course part of that rides on Rittich proving himself as a starter allowing us to pennypinch on his backup.
__________________

"May those who accept their fate find happiness. May those who defy it find glory."
GranteedEV is offline  
The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to GranteedEV For This Useful Post:
Closed Thread

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -6. The time now is 08:18 AM.

Calgary Flames
2023-24




Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright Calgarypuck 2021