Article: why fighting has dropped to historic lows

[DeluxeMoustache]

Originally Posted by Cali Panthers Fan

People should honestly listen to Carcillo speak sometime before saying #### like this. The guy is putting it all on the line to fight this battle because he believes in it.

Go ahead and ask him if he would give up his Stanley cup ring to not have his concussion issues, or to go back in time and play the game differently. He'll tell you that he would give it up in a heartbeat.

Do you know how I know? I asked him that directly and that's exactly what he told me.

To me it’s not just the fighting with the guy. If there was no fighting and he himself had no concussion issues, would he campaign against the vicious cheap shots he made to other guys’ heads? Those had nothing to do with fighting.

It has to do with hindsight and consequences.

I suspect Bill Cosby would probably have different ideas about drugging and raping people if you asked him.

Too far?

[Beatle17]

Originally Posted by Cali Panthers Fan

People should honestly listen to Carcillo speak sometime before saying #### like this. The guy is putting it all on the line to fight this battle because he believes in it.

Go ahead and ask him if he would give up his Stanley cup ring to not have his concussion issues, or to go back in time and play the game differently. He'll tell you that he would give it up in a heartbeat.

Do you know how I know? I asked him that directly and that's exactly what he told me.

Sure he would now, WHEN HE IS DONE PLAYING and the league doesn't feed him any more. Ask him how he helped out the people he drove face first into the boards. He is the perfect description of a hypocrite. There are tons of guys who used to fight that would be good spokesman, but Carcillo is not one of them.

Hell, get Matt Cooke to tour with him.

[Cali Panthers Fan]

Originally Posted by Beatle17

Sure he would now, WHEN HE IS DONE PLAYING and the league doesn't feed him any more. Ask him how he helped out the people he drove face first into the boards. He is the perfect description of a hypocrite. There are tons of guys who used to fight that would be good spokesman, but Carcillo is not one of them.

Hell, get Matt Cooke to tour with him.

Again, listen to his story in full, and then judge.

He didn't know anything about long-term concussion damage until the last year or two he was playing, and even then, it was minimal.

I may have agreed with you once upon a time before I heard his story and spoke with him personally. He got very emotional about things during our conversation. He's not trying to bull#### anyone and he's plenty hard on himself for what he did when he was playing.

But you clearly want him to be a villain, so have at 'er.

[memphusk]

The game is so soft. Sad to see.

[neo45]

Carcillo comes off as super disingenuous to me as well. He was one of the worst cheapshot artists of ALL TIME and he plays the victim more than he plays apologetic for his actions.

Like dude you didn’t play in the 70s. You knew better at the time. That’s why they kept suspending you. Because what you were doing was dangerous and unacceptable.

I think if he wants headshots out of the game he should start with acknowledging that he was worse than 99.99% of players who played when it comes to this issue he is trying to tackle.

I think there is a lot of currency in being the victim these days and Carcillo comes off, to me anyways, as a troubled guy who is more into playing the victim than being honest about his past as a player.

If somebody feels different about him, that’s totally fine as well. It just rings very false to me compared to hearing from guys like Savard and Kariya.

[Wolfman]

Originally Posted by DeluxeMoustache

To me it’s not just the fighting with the guy. If there was no fighting and he himself had no concussion issues, would he campaign against the vicious cheap shots he made to other guys’ heads? Those had nothing to do with fighting.

It has to do with hindsight and consequences.

I suspect Bill Cosby would probably have different ideas about drugging and raping people if you asked him.

Too far?

[Steve Bozek]

Originally Posted by Beatle17

Sure he would now, WHEN HE IS DONE PLAYING and the league doesn't feed him any more. Ask him how he helped out the people he drove face first into the boards. He is the perfect description of a hypocrite. There are tons of guys who used to fight that would be good spokesman, but Carcillo is not one of them.

Hell, get Matt Cooke to tour with him.

People grow up and they learn from experience. I agree with Cali Panther Fan.

To me, hockey fights are like shoot-outs - exciting at the moment, but the game would be better off without them. At least shoot-outs don’t cause brain damage.

[ColoradoFlamesFan]

Just reading Ken Dryden’s book Game Change
It includes Carcillo and Steve’s influences on him
Very tough to read this book and endorse sports in general.
I’m right at the end, so take it for what it’s worth.
I love hockey and all the physicality that comes with it
Then I think about Sam Bennett late last year when he was wobbled and left for the quite room

[bax]

To the people criticizing Carcillo in this thread- get a grip.

He grew up in a time where Scott Stevens was idolized. People are allowed to change their ideas and opinions when presented with new information. That doesn't make someone a hypocrite.

Do you think people that promoted smoking cigarettes in the 60's would have a different opinion now?

Research his full story- the guy is clearly passionate about this and wants the best outcomes possible for past, current, and future players.

[neo45]

Originally Posted by bax

To the people criticizing Carcillo in this thread- get a grip.

He grew up in a time where Scott Stevens was idolized. People are allowed to change their ideas and opinions when presented with new information. That doesn't make someone a hypocrite.

Do you think people that promoted smoking cigarettes in the 60's would have a different opinion now?

Research his full story- the guy is clearly passionate about this and wants the best outcomes possible for past, current, and future players.

Every other player in the league with Carcillo ALSO grew up watching Scott Stevens and they all somehow managed to not get 9 suspensions.

Seriously, Carcillo went his entire career AVERAGING two suspensions per an 82 game season. Not all were for dangerous headshots but still. That isn’t a systemic problem, that’s completely on the individual.

[bax]

Originally Posted by neo45

Every other player in the league with Carcillo ALSO grew up watching Scott Stevens and they all somehow managed to not get 9 suspensions.

Seriously, Carcillo went his entire career AVERAGING two suspensions per an 82 game season. Not all were for dangerous headshots but still. That isn’t a systemic problem, that’s completely on the individual.

No one is telling you that you have to forgive him for how he played. Criticize his NHL career all you want.

My stance is that even though he had a lot of dirty, dangerous plays in the NHL that doesn't discredit what he is trying to achieve today and it doesn't make him a hypocrite. People change, learn, and grow. He realized his actions had serious consequences on people's health and he wants the NHL to be a better league moving forward while ensuring that all players, current, past and future get the help that they need.

I can't fathom why some people want to criticize him for that.

[Northendzone]

i don't mind seeing two guys having a go at it as a result of a board battle.

i find the staged fight between two "specialists" boring, and i really hate when a guy has to fight because he gave a clean hard body check to another player

[Jiggy]

Having guys who can't play the game except to fight is gone from the game is a good thing. But don't take fighting out of the game. There is nothing like having two guys pissed at each other and squaring off. Like another poster said, call the game like the NFL or NBA if you want to completely take fighting out.

[GirlySports]

NBA and MLB dont allow fighting but fights still happen out of anger. Players just accept the consequences of ejections and suspensions.

[Thor]

I grew up in the 80s watching all the brawls and fights. I was convinced at an early age that fighting was necessary, and good for the game.



I have done a total 180, I now see just how much better the game is without it, and especially considering the brain damage these guys suffer from a career being enforcers.


I can't ever in good conscience support fighting again considering the life long effects these guys have to suffer because of a few mins a game of some fighting.

[corporatejay]

Originally Posted by Erick Estrada

The biggest issue by far with the NHL right now is the officiating. It's the only professional sport where officials follow the league rule book situationally.

This isn't true at all.

[Shazam]

Angel Hernandez. MLB. Oof.

[GirlySports]

Angel Hernandez is just a bad umpire who doesn't know the rules but thinks he does. This is not situational.

NHL refs are good refs but have been told to keep games close.

Check out this research paper.

http://people.stat.sfu.ca/~tim/papers/penalty.pdf

Two of the primary observations in this paper are that (1) teams that have taken more penalties in a match are less likely to have the next penalty called against them and (2) teams that are leading in a match are more likely to have the next penalty called against them

[landshark]

Everything about hockey changed when his good friend, Steve Montador died. That isn't hard to understand.

[White Out 403]

Fighting in hockey is stupid and dangerous and adds nothing to the game. You get a few seconds of crowd excitement and in exchange you have these knuckle draggers on the bench taking jobs who then wind up suffering major head trauma. I don't blame them, they're just trying to make a living and feed their families. But I'm glad fighting is on the way out.