Flames - how to cure the rot for 2019/20

[Azure]

Originally Posted by CGY12

The Capitals comparison is hilarious, it does the opposite for me, really emphasizing what the Flames are missing, to be a cup contender.

They have a 1 2 punch of Backstrom and Kuznetsov down the middle, both can drive the play, both can dictate pace, both can create space for line mates, both are good skaters, both are great passers, both can finish, both have some sand paper to their game that playoff hockey doesn't make them go into hiding.

Counter that with Monahan and Backlund. Monahan excellent in front of the net and in the face-off circle, but is lacking in virtually every other aspect of the game (speed, raw skill, grit, intensity, vision). Then you have Backlund, serviceable centre playing in 2c role where he is a better fit for 3c.

The Caps literally could beat anybody but the Pens for the longest stretch.. If it weren't for the Pens, OV and crew have more than 1 cup during his time in DC.

Do the Flames need to gut what they have completely? No, the Flames have some building blocks. Its unfortunate the centres they've drafted high haven't been these game changing, control play type players (Bennett/Monahan). It just reinforces how important it is to build from the middle out, the centre ice position dictates so much of what goes on out there.

The Flames need to re-evaluate that position this summer and see if anything can be done, whether thats moving Monahan or exploring all options to see if they can bring in somebody who can manage the game more effectively in crunch time, while dropping Monahan to 2c.

Your point clearly points out that the Flames need someone ELSE to drive the play on the 1st line. Monahan would be better suited to play 2C.

We also don't know how Lindholm will develop.

I defintely wouldn't blow the team up, but I think we need a better 3rd line, and help at 1C.

Brodie gives us a chance of getting top 6 help if we trade him.

[topfiverecords]

Originally Posted by Vinny01

Literally taking 3 of our top 5 players away? Deals where likely the Flames are moving the best player in the trade? Fantasy land zero chance it happens and big chance it blows up in the Flames face.

I realistically see less change coming this summer than last with more tweaks to add some size and grit. Guys like Brodie, Frolik won’t be back but it would be shocking to see one of the fab 5 this year moved let alone 3.

If you can pull off a Vegas and build a new 2nd line (Pacioretty - Stastny - Stone) that performs as the number one line then keep Gaudreau and Monahan. They'll get better line matchups and maybe put up better playoff performance without the pressure to carry the offense. Otherwise this team is never going on a deep run where they're your only top players that you need to rely on.

Gio probably won't be the true number one anymore come time for this team to be true cup contenders.

Never said these 3 would be moved this year or ever, but IMO they should be to build a better team.

[GGG]

How many of these first line centres exist in the league?

10-15 maybe? How many are available? 0?

Hayes is not that guy.

I think you trade from a position on strength on D looking at the guys with expiring deals to make room for the young guys. Use those assents to improve up front. Trading top 6 forwards, an area we have a shortage, does not make sense.

[CGY12]

Originally Posted by GGG

How many of these first line centres exist in the league?

10-15 maybe? How many are available? 0?

Hayes is not that guy.

I think you trade from a position on strength on D looking at the guys with expiring deals to make room for the young guys. Use those assents to improve up front. Trading top 6 forwards, an area we have a shortage, does not make sense.

Agreed very tough to acquire the elite, but I think when looking to fill the need you have to look at style of play. Monahan is a good player but he isn't somebody that can manage a game. Johnny needs help, he needs somebody that can carry the puck up, can gain the o-zone, can draw in defenders to generate space.

Not saying we can acquire this guy or that we should, but an example that quickly comes to mind of a player who isn't elite but is effective at this is Kreji.

[2macinnis2]

Originally Posted by Vinny01

The problem with the Backlund trade is not having a center that can take the heavy lifting defensive matchups. Hayes is not that guy and we have to pay him a lot of money to come here and would likely be another Treliving UFA dud.


I can see why the Flames went so hard after Reaves last summer his swagger come playoff time would have been ideal. Also heard the Flames almost signed Calvert so Treliving was after grit last summer. Let’s see who he chases this off-season.

You’d have to be confident Ryan could handle that role...

[David Struch]

Hmm, I could see Treliving bringing in another couple young core players for Backlund, Brodie +

[442scotty]

If Hayes was any good the Rangers would’ve kept him and he’s a local boy!!!
Don’t want.

[Vinny01]

Originally Posted by Igottago

I don't totally disagree with you, but I'm not advocating for a scorched earth approach. To me Tkachuk isn't even on the list of people I'm questioning yet. But some of the other guys I was expecting to really embrace the leadership role in the playoffs this year didn't do it.

I tend to look for indications that there is reason for more patience but this years performance was so shockingly bad that I don't even know how to wrap my head around it. Its terrible that for our best players, the guys who all had great seasons, we can't look at a single one of them and say "at least he really stepped it up for the playoffs".

How is Tkachuk not on your list then? I agree all of our best players failed and that is why they got dominated and are out in 5 games. Tkachuk has been brutal in his 2 playoff runs. Monahan scored in all 4 games against a bigger tougher Ducks team. He and Johnny exploded when the team was down 3-0 in game 6 in 2015 to help orchestrate a comeback to win the series. Both players were clutch in that game. Johnny’s late tying goal against the Ducks.

The Flames made fairly sweeping changes last year bringing in Lindholm, Neal, Ryan, Mangiapane up front and Hanifin, Andersson, Valimaki/Kylington on the back end. I am not sure they are going to make massive changes this summer but more tinkering. Move out a Dman or two (Brodie+Stone) improve the size and grit up front and make room for Dube.

Ultimately I agree about the top players. It was really a kick in the junk to have this happen after hearing them talk all year about stepping up in the playoffs. At the end of the day I rather take our chances with our players figuring it out than trying to shuffle the deck too much. I do love a good blockbuster deal though

[topfiverecords]

Originally Posted by Vinny01

How is Tkachuk not on your list then? I agree all of our best players failed and that is why they got dominated and are out in 5 games. Tkachuk has been brutal in his 2 playoff runs. Monahan scored in all 4 games against a bigger tougher Ducks team. He and Johnny exploded when the team was down 3-0 in game 6 in 2015 to help orchestrate a comeback to win the series. Both players were clutch in that game. Johnny’s late tying goal against the Ducks.

The Flames made fairly sweeping changes last year bringing in Lindholm, Neal, Ryan, Mangiapane up front and Hanifin, Andersson, Valimaki/Kylington on the back end. I am not sure they are going to make massive changes this summer but more tinkering. Move out a Dman or two (Brodie+Stone) improve the size and grit up front and make room for Dube.

Ultimately I agree about the top players. It was really a kick in the junk to have this happen after hearing them talk all year about stepping up in the playoffs. At the end of the day I rather take our chances with our players figuring it out than trying to shuffle the deck too much. I do love a good blockbuster deal though

I think you have to cut Tkachuk a touch of slack for one more year. He was playing on a line with Backlund and Frolik who were responsible for playing a shutdown role. He was also the youngest forward on the team.

[DazzlinDino]

Originally Posted by Vinny01

How is Tkachuk not on your list then? I agree all of our best players failed and that is why they got dominated and are out in 5 games. Tkachuk has been brutal in his 2 playoff runs. Monahan scored in all 4 games against a bigger tougher Ducks team. He and Johnny exploded when the team was down 3-0 in game 6 in 2015 to help orchestrate a comeback to win the series. Both players were clutch in that game. Johnny’s late tying goal against the Ducks.

The Flames made fairly sweeping changes last year bringing in Lindholm, Neal, Ryan, Mangiapane up front and Hanifin, Andersson, Valimaki/Kylington on the back end. I am not sure they are going to make massive changes this summer but more tinkering. Move out a Dman or two (Brodie+Stone) improve the size and grit up front and make room for Dube.

Ultimately I agree about the top players. It was really a kick in the junk to have this happen after hearing them talk all year about stepping up in the playoffs. At the end of the day I rather take our chances with our players figuring it out than trying to shuffle the deck too much. I do love a good blockbuster deal though

I think there is more to it; I think there is a reason the players "didn't show up when it mattered." Monahan was probably nursing an injury that they tried to keep quiet. Did the players play for Mike Smith, leadership, or did the coach lose the room at some point? We don't know the reasons but it does seem odd that they talked all year about showing up in the playoffs then didn't leave everything on the ice when it mattered.

Whatever the reason I don't the Flames played their best hockey against the Avalanche, Something doesn't add up, instead of coming together the team folded.

[Vinny01]

Originally Posted by topfiverecords

I think you have to cut Tkachuk a touch of slack for one more year. He was playing on a line with Backlund and Frolik who were responsible for playing a shutdown role. He was also the youngest forward on the team.

I can also say that Monahan and Gaudreau deserve some slack but considering they have won a round in the playoffs before and have been clutch many times in their careers in the past like Tkachuk.

I am not really looking to trade any of our core players and believe moving on from Brodie, Frolik, Stone and somehow magically Neal would allow Treliving g to put some better pieces around our core.

[Bonded]

If we trade Monahan and Gaudreau we are back to rebuilding.

[Monahammer]

We are not going to trade Monahan or gaudreau.

Brodie, janko, this years 1st, frolik- all pieces that should be used to get something nice

Neal, stone- pieces that must go

Thanks but happy trails Mike Smith.

Go into next season training everyone for speed

[I_H8_Crawford]

Watching SJ claw their way back into the series... Flames were BY FAR the worst team in the west in the playoffs.

They would have been crushed by any of the other 7 teams.

Not going to win when the going gets tough with the pansies and mental midgets that the Flames currently rely on

[UKflames]

It wouldn't surprise me to see Bennett given a shot at the #1C spot at the beginning of next season. I see him as a typical power forward and they do take longer to develop into their final style. He has improved a lot over this season, taken less stupid penalties and was driving play against the Avs.
I know he has been a winger for the past couple of seasons but that maybe as much to do with the fact that we already had, what management felt, was a strong selection of C and part of his growing process required him to play the wing and now he can develop his C skills.

[the_only_turek_fan]

Originally Posted by Sylvanfan

I like Frolik but he has 1 assist in his last 13 games in which his teams are 1-12.

His position and salary slot are easy for me to identify as needing an upgrade.

I am not basing the following on any stats but it just seems to me that the 3M line clicks better with him. When he has moved him off that line Backlund and Tkachuk seem off.

I would honestly offer him a 1 year contract extension for a million bucks.

[tkflames]

Originally Posted by the_only_turek_fan

I am not basing the following on any stats but it just seems to me that the 3M line clicks better with him. When he has moved him off that line Backlund and Tkachuk seem off.

I would honestly offer him a 1 year contract extension for a million bucks.

Dont need to...he is already signed for $4.3M.

[Yoho]

Calgary’s postseason demise is simple to understand – Flamesnation

https://flamesnation.ca/2019/04/21/c...to-understand/

[the_only_turek_fan]

You can’t just trade everyone and fire everyone when things go bad.

Some of you guys are talking like you are 100% awesome at your jobs and things never go bad.

If anything, this was a very valuable lesson for these guys. Hopefully next year they will be able to elevate their game in April.

[Classic_Sniper]

Originally Posted by blender

Here's a thought. The Neal signing is proof that Treliving is a good GM.
I know. Doesn't make sense, but if you assume that the goal was to acquire a veteran, gritty, playoff performer it follows that Treliving recognized that was indeed what the Flames were lacking. The fact that Neal failed to deliver is still on Treliving, but he had the right idea. I would suggest that the pro scouts are taking some heat internally at this point.
Just something that I was thinking about.

I’m actually pretty sure Neal was the wrong answer in almost every way possible. Treliving is a good GM, but his vision was wrong IMO. James Neal was just another Troy Brouwer but with an even worse contract.

Now once again, we’re stuck wondering what to do with another bad contract with ever decreasing cap space and more questions than answers for Brad Treliving for second straight summer.

I do think you’re right about the pro scouts though. For every solid move, there seems to be a gargantuan mistake behind it. That doesn’t seem like a recipe for success.


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