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Old 07-09-2017, 11:39 PM   #781
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Originally Posted by saXon View Post
The McDavid contract will never be a great deal. Let's be real here.
Probably not great, but good or fair easily.

Why does every contract have to be great? In all likelihood Mcdavid will be the best player over the next 5 years and will be paid as so
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Old 07-10-2017, 06:53 AM   #782
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Right now it is not a great deal but it could be by the end of the contract. If for example the cap goes up further next year and Laine, Matthews, and Tavares all sign for $12M per then I'd rather have McDavid for $500k more.

In all likely hood though the cap will stagnate and those players will sign for around $10.5M per meaning McDavid will be overpaid.
if laine, Matthews and Tavares all signed for 10.5 then McDavid's contract would be fair, not overpaid. he's likely 2m per year better than those players.
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Old 07-10-2017, 07:13 AM   #783
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Watching McDavid play for your team is one thing. It'd be downright exciting. But having his contract on the books, killing the rest of your team's build? No thanks. I'd want no part of that.
You just got fired as your teams GM.

Every GM would give up multiple assets for that contract. Saying you wouldn't want him on that contract is ridiculous.
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Old 07-10-2017, 07:53 AM   #784
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You just got fired as your teams GM.

Every GM would give up multiple assets for that contract. Saying you wouldn't want him on that contract is ridiculous.
agreed.
considering what Chia did in boston, I would guess he will fail in managing the cap and fail to properly build around McDavid.

I would bet every other team would relish the opportunity, though. only a bad GM would say "I want no part of McDavid signed for 9 years." even if it is at 12.5
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Old 07-10-2017, 08:26 AM   #785
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Pittsburgh, Chicago and LA have won 8 recent Stanley Cups.

The amount of "truly elite" talent on those teams when they won indicates that the above post is bang on.
Well LA didn't really have elite talent up front. Their elite talent was arguably Doughty and Quick. And defense and goaltending are arguably more important than forwards. Where would EDM finish with McDavid, Scrivens and having not traded for Larsson? Probably out of the playoffs yet again.

Where does WSH finish every year with Backtrom/Ovechkin?

It's not a simple question to answer. Hockey is a team game and the best forwards usually only play 1/3 the game. If McDavid at 12.5 million means you have to skimp on defensive depth then the Oilers may never win with him. If McDavid at 12.5 million makes it harder to keep Talbot long term than the Oilers may never win with him

Chiarelli will have to be a wizard to keep a good supporting cast around McDavid. I'm skeptical they'll be able to

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Old 07-10-2017, 08:35 AM   #786
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Well LA didn't really have elite talent up front. Their elite talent was arguably Doughty and Quick. And defense and goaltending are arguably more important than forwards. Where would EDM finish with McDavid, Scrivens and having not traded for Larsson? Probably out of the playoffs yet again.

Where does WSH finish every year with Backtrom/Ovechkin?

It's not a simple question to answer. Hockey is a team game and the best forwards usually only play 1/3 the game. If McDavid at 12.5 million means you have to skimp on defensive depth then the Oilers may never win with him. If McDavid at 12.5 million makes it harder to keep Talbot long term than the Oilers may never win with him

Chiarelli will have to be a wizard to keep a good supporting cast around McDavid. I'm skeptical they'll be able to
Edmonton's problem won't be McDavid's contact, it will be contracts like Lucic.

With respect to LA, I would consider Kopitar elite, as he's basically the identical player as Toews. Carter was pretty good also.
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Old 07-10-2017, 08:40 AM   #787
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Like I said before and the more I think about it the more I think its true.

At the start of these negotiations most people had a figure of 11 to 12 million per year for McDavid, Oiler fans had under 10 million.

Then the whole 13.25 talk started, caused by leaks. Panic ensued in Oiler land, while other fan bases laughed and laughed and laughed.

Then McDavid come in at 12.5. A pretty small 3/4 of a million below the 13.5. Suddenly the message changed.

Oiler fans. "OMG what a awesome guy, we got a home town discount" they said. "What a humble great guy, but that Draisaitl, what an ahole" other Oiler fans said. "Like a Vipa" said K-Lowe and Chia simultaneously.

Meanwhile other fan bases said "That's a great deal, I can't believe that he took a discount".

Its the power of suggestion, when is a discount not a discount? When you use the media to sell an increase over an original estimation as a decrease of the higher rumor.

We've been duped, conned, flimflammed, snookered, used, deceived and smarmed.

Basically there was a leak that promised a unicorn, instead they got a horse, its a nice horse to be sure, but its a horse, and everyone is happy because they didn't get a unicorn.
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Old 07-10-2017, 08:44 AM   #788
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Edmonton's problem won't be McDavid's contact, it will be contracts like Lucic.
Both contracts are a problem. Frankly Sekera's contract is a problem. Russell's contract isn't ideal. Basically the McDavid contract makes it so that you can't have many overpaid players on your roster. But UFAs arguably are usually overpaid in comparison to younger talent. As the Oilers move forward Chiarelli's task will be to surround McDavid. But if they don't draft and develop well they'll never get the cheap, young talent they need to fill out the team in the cap world. Chiarelli can't plug too many holes via UFA or they'll have too many players who aren't steals. Chiarelli will have to make hard decisions and occasionally walk away from players who are going to get overpaid in part because of McDavid

If the Oilers don't improve their drafting and development they'll never be able to find enough cheap talent to surround him with. I don't think you can rely on Chiarelli making multiple Maroon type deals every year to plug the holes that keep opening up
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Old 07-10-2017, 08:49 AM   #789
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Both contracts are a problem. Frankly Sekera's contract is a problem. Russell's contract isn't ideal. Basically the McDavid contract makes it so that you can't have many overpaid players on your roster. But UFAs arguably are usually overpaid in comparison to younger talent. As the Oilers move forward Chiarelli's task will be to surround McDavid. But if they don't draft and develop well they'll never get the cheap, young talent they need to fill out the team in the cap world. Chiarelli can't plug too many holes via UFA or they'll have too many players who aren't steals.

If the Oilers don't improve their drafting and development they'll never be able to find enough cheap talent to surround him with. I don't think you can rely on Chiarelli making multiple Maroon type deals every year to plug the holes that keep opening up


I've hi-lighted those parts of your post I consider key.

You can see why Chicago and Pittsburgh succeeded.

Any top team will eventually run into cap issues once you have to pay your elite talent. The problem isn't those contracts per se, as long as you are paying FMV for your elite core. The problem occurs when you cannot bring in cheap decent players on ELC's.

And you are correct, that will likely lead to Edmonton's downfall, the inability to bring in cheap talent.

Because the UFA market is seldom a place you go to fill holes cheaply.
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Old 07-10-2017, 06:11 PM   #790
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You just got fired as your teams GM.

Every GM would give up multiple assets for that contract. Saying you wouldn't want him on that contract is ridiculous.
Luckily I'm not a GM.

It's stupid building around a contract that size. Let's wait with a huge bowl of popcorn for the next 8 years and see if it works.
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Old 07-10-2017, 07:33 PM   #791
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Originally Posted by Flames Draft Watcher View Post
Both contracts are a problem. Frankly Sekera's contract is a problem. Russell's contract isn't ideal. Basically the McDavid contract makes it so that you can't have many overpaid players on your roster. But UFAs arguably are usually overpaid in comparison to younger talent. As the Oilers move forward Chiarelli's task will be to surround McDavid. But if they don't draft and develop well they'll never get the cheap, young talent they need to fill out the team in the cap world. Chiarelli can't plug too many holes via UFA or they'll have too many players who aren't steals. Chiarelli will have to make hard decisions and occasionally walk away from players who are going to get overpaid in part because of McDavid

If the Oilers don't improve their drafting and development they'll never be able to find enough cheap talent to surround him with. I don't think you can rely on Chiarelli making multiple Maroon type deals every year to plug the holes that keep opening up
You nailed it and given Edmonton's spectacular track record at drafting and developing young talent I see multiple Stanley Cups in their foreseeable future..........

Ok, how long until McJesus demand to be traded, I say before the end of the 5th year of his long term deal!

Last edited by Realistic; 07-10-2017 at 07:35 PM. Reason: Spelling
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Old 07-10-2017, 08:06 PM   #792
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if laine, Matthews and Tavares all signed for 10.5 then McDavid's contract would be fair, not overpaid. he's likely 2m per year better than those players.
I bet someone will be making 11+ within two years.

Tavares and Karlsson were both on bargain contracts last time around. I could see one of them wanting to get paid on their last big contract.
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Old 07-10-2017, 08:09 PM   #793
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if laine, Matthews and Tavares all signed for 10.5 then McDavid's contract would be fair, not overpaid. he's likely 2m per year better than those players.
Just $2 million better than Laine and Mathews? Come on, let's be realistic. I wouldn't take Laine and Mathews together for MCDavid straight up.

He's at least $5 million better than both those players.
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Old 07-10-2017, 08:15 PM   #794
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Just $2 million better than Laine and Mathews? Come on, let's be realistic. I wouldn't take Laine and Mathews together for MCDavid straight up.



He's at least $5 million better than both those players.


Lol. Okay then.
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Old 07-10-2017, 08:16 PM   #795
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I bet someone will be making 11+ within two years.



Tavares and Karlsson were both on bargain contracts last time around. I could see one of them wanting to get paid on their last big contract.

I am betting that the cap starts to stall, then slide and no one gets close to $12.5 m. By the time of the next CBA expiration McDavid is making close to 20% of the Oilers' payroll.
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Old 07-10-2017, 08:22 PM   #796
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Just $2 million better than Laine and Mathews? Come on, let's be realistic. I wouldn't take Laine and Mathews together for MCDavid straight up.

He's at least $5 million better than both those players.
C'mon thats just crazy talk.
Mathews centering Laine >>> Mcdavid
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Old 07-10-2017, 08:31 PM   #797
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Just $2 million better than Laine and Mathews? Come on, let's be realistic. I wouldn't take Laine and Mathews together for MCDavid straight up.

He's at least $5 million better than both those players.
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Old 07-10-2017, 08:38 PM   #798
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Just $2 million better than Laine and Mathews? Come on, let's be realistic. I wouldn't take Laine and Mathews together for MCDavid straight up.

He's at least $5 million better than both those players
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Old 07-10-2017, 09:05 PM   #799
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I am betting that the cap starts to stall, then slide and no one gets close to $12.5 m. By the time of the next CBA expiration McDavid is making close to 20% of the Oilers' payroll.
It's never shrunk yet. Not even through the "Great Recession".

You predicting an apocalypse?
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Old 07-10-2017, 09:20 PM   #800
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It's never shrunk yet. Not even through the "Great Recession".

You predicting an apocalypse?
All because of McDavid undoubtedly.
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