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Old 07-05-2005, 10:46 PM   #21
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Originally posted by transplant99@Jul 5 2005, 04:16 PM
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Under Bettman the game did not keep up to the likes of the NBA and NFL in growth.
Really?

Well maybe not in the amount of total $$.

But it is impossible to argue that the game/league didnt grow in $$ amount at an UNPRECEDENTED rate, never before seen by the game of hockey. Period. All under Gary Bettmans watch.

You claim to be a player, and if so, great and thanks for your input. However, there are many holes in your "statement" that a majority of fans would like a chance to put their fist through and that have never been challenged publically.

If you are AF, then I invite you to contact the author of this thread or the grand poobah himself (Bingo in CP terms) and get on the already established "CP hotseat", and answer those Q's straight up.

Fair enough?
I agree that the game has grown from it's previous era, (80's). Both in size and dollar amount. With the escalation of salaries came an escalation in ticket prices, tv contracts and merchandise sales. Sponsors and advertising revenue became essential to teams to stay afloat. We have new teams in new markets bringing in new revenue that was never seen before. So ya, I agree the dollars have grown in a big way. But I argue that the game has not grown and developed itself into it's potential. In Canada the game sells itself because people are brought up on it and love it for what it is. I argue that the U.S. is a completely different market. I don't claim to have all the answers as to how that could be accomplished in the States but there are brilliant people out there that have done this kind of work, (NBA). Just one look at our TV contract down there and I think you would agree that the unprecedented growth has not been substantial enough in terms of the game itself.
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Old 07-05-2005, 10:47 PM   #22
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It's very plausible that he is a player, but its equally possible that he is not.

It's also possible that if he is a player, he doesn't want his identity revealed. In his first 4 posts there is nothing conclusive, so we all have a right to be skeptical.

That doesn't mean his opinions aren't valid. They just aren't as valid as they would be if we knew for a fact he was a player.
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Old 07-05-2005, 10:48 PM   #23
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Quote:
Originally posted by transplant99@Jul 6 2005, 03:53 AM
All people claiming to be players/management/agents etc, are always subject to prove it...Bingo's rule, and a very good one.

I have zero problem with AF voicing his "opinion" on Winter and what was said. But it is only that...an opinion.

So if you don't like players/whoever getting questioned and facing the music of what THEY said...well I couldn't care less.
I really don't want to get in the middle of this, but I don't think okotokes openly said he was Ference, did he? Just a player?

And okotokes doesn't try and come off as a cut above all of us, so I don't think we need to make demands or anything. Not saying you are, transplant, but I think that might be what Claren was getting at.
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Old 07-05-2005, 11:01 PM   #24
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Quote:
Originally posted by okotoker@Jul 5 2005, 09:02 PM
I don't claim to have all the answers as to how that could be accomplished in the States but there are brilliant people out there that have done this kind of work, (NBA).
I don't think we can compare to the growth and/or popularity in the NHL and NBA.

The NHL will not come close to the popularity of the NBA for a long, long time........maybe ever.

I think the league, the players, and the fans would be a lot better off if we just accepted the fact for now that hockey is a very regionalized sport.

I'm not saying don't try to promaote it and try to grow it............just don't freak out if it doesn't happen.

I think it would be a massive step in the right direction if the NHL could squeeze back into the "big 4" major sports in the U.S., instead of where it is now...........behind NASCAR and poker, and right along with bowling and figure skating.

And the lockout sure hasn't helped...........
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Old 07-05-2005, 11:05 PM   #25
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Originally posted by fotze@Jul 5 2005, 10:15 PM
What is wrong with allowing the players to change their minds and going forward. Do we have to keep kicking them in the head. It is obviously a good strategy to get everyone buying into the same gameplan, why when they finally do we feel compelled to kick them in the ass in the I told you so fashion.

fata IT. They are going to sign a deal that pretty much kicks their ass, but there is a positive of potential growth and they are looking at it that way, the same way all of us do when we are kicked in the ass by life.
Players, agents, etc can have a change of heart.. But it still stings fans to know that they've finally come around to the view that a lot of us have had for a long time, and for that, they're going to get a hard time.. If I was in the same position I'd expect the same thing.
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Old 07-05-2005, 11:17 PM   #26
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I agree that the game has grown from it's previous era, (80's). Both in size and dollar amount. With the escalation of salaries came an escalation in ticket prices, tv contracts and merchandise sales. Sponsors and advertising revenue became essential to teams to stay afloat. We have new teams in new markets bringing in new revenue that was never seen before. So ya, I agree the dollars have grown in a big way.
So you agree that salaries were a direct factor in the escalation of tickets etc? Thanks for that, as I have heard numerous PA pundits claim the opposite. Refreshing change.

Quote:


We have new teams in new markets bringing in new revenue that was never seen before. So ya, I agree the dollars have grown in a big way.
Yes...and they have new salaries to pay and rinks to lease that were never seen before as well. I suspect thats why the majority of "new teams" are losing bucket loads of money.

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But I argue that the game has not grown and developed itself into it's potential. In Canada the game sells itself because people are brought up on it and love it for what it is I argue that the U.S. is a completely different market.
I disagree.

It's potential is and always has been a gate driven league. Its a regional sport...period. The ghost of a huge national TV contract in the US has been given up. Owners have been trying to get that deal for decades...it simply isnt gonna happen. I reside in the South and am well aware of the fact that MOST people dont care about hockey, never will care about hockey, and dont want to care about hockey. They grow up on basketball/football/baseball etc. Just like Canadians grow up on hockey. It's all about geography.

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I don't claim to have all the answers as to how that could be accomplished in the States but there are brilliant people out there that have done this kind of work, (NBA)
It's interesting you say that. Here is what Ritch Winter, ( he of the great business mind and all that) said...

"Why are we taking directions from a bunch of basketball executives who only know how to lose millions of dollars, minimize talent and (screw up) TV deals?" said Edmonton-based Ritch Winter, refering to Bettman's NBA roots.

http://slam.canoe.ca/Slam/Hockey/NHL...03/948642.html

His words.

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Just one look at our TV contract down there and I think you would agree that the unprecedented growth has not been substantial enough in terms of the game itself.
Agreed. Unfortunately its reality. Hockey NEEDS to get back to its grass roots level...in all NHL cities. That's how you grow the game. There is a pretty good chunk of hockey fans in the colder areas of the US and in NHL cities. Start there. The game will never be a nation wide love-in like the other sports.
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Old 07-05-2005, 11:18 PM   #27
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The moderator has contacted me to "verify" that I am me. I have looked at this site for quite a while, bit my tounge more than a few times, but all in all have really valued the opinions and thoughts presented. I hope you all can realize though that players comments over the last year in public have had to be guarded and "careful". I pretty much walked as close to the line as to not bury my union. Also realize that Calgary has been well represented by it's players when communications are going on within the union and your opinion of many of us might be much better if you could hear those thoughts. It has been a bad year and there have been a lot of horrible decisions made, a lot of decisions that went against what many players believed in but that is history whether we like it or not. Thanks for letting me drop in once and a while and you can be assured that you won't get a "superior" attitude from my posts, just throwing in my two cents.
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Old 07-05-2005, 11:19 PM   #28
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Quote:
Originally posted by fotze@Jul 6 2005, 12:15 AM
What is wrong with allowing the players to change their minds and going forward. Do we have to keep kicking them in the head. It is obviously a good strategy to get everyone buying into the same gameplan, why when they finally do we feel compelled to kick them in the ass in the I told you so fashion.

fata IT. They are going to sign a deal that pretty much kicks their ass, but there is a positive of potential growth and they are looking at it that way, the same way all of us do when we are kicked in the ass by life.
WHo's kicking them man?

Seriously.
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Tkachuk is more like Marchand than the other guys though. He's really ****ing good. He's just a total butthole.
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Old 07-05-2005, 11:20 PM   #29
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Andrew:

Who's your favorite character from the movie Slap Shot?
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Old 07-05-2005, 11:20 PM   #30
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Way to be an *******.

While you obviously feel that your scepticism is warrented (and perhaps it is) your attitude is only justified IF he is lying about being a player, but what if he is not? What incentive have you given him to participate further in this discussion?
Agreed.

T99 contributes a ton and is obviously intelligent, but Bingo et. al. should ban his SCREAMING in capital letters. There is no need for it. Seriously.
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Old 07-05-2005, 11:22 PM   #31
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Quote:
Originally posted by Reggie Dunlop@Jul 5 2005, 10:36 PM
Andrew:

Who's your favorite character from the movie Slap Shot?
Love him or hate him, Reggie's always good for a snicker.....
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Old 07-05-2005, 11:23 PM   #32
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The moderator has contacted me to "verify" that I am me.
Terrific. And as I said in my original post....great and thanks for your input.

All the fans are going to be looking for more direct contact with players to start healing the wounds.

Thanks for taking your time and talking to the whole looney lot of us.
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Tkachuk is more like Marchand than the other guys though. He's really ****ing good. He's just a total butthole.
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Old 07-05-2005, 11:24 PM   #33
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Quote:
Originally posted by Reggie Dunlop@Jul 5 2005, 09:36 PM
Andrew:

Who's your favorite character from the movie Slap Shot?
That movie sucked.
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Old 07-05-2005, 11:25 PM   #34
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Originally posted by northernflame@Jul 6 2005, 12:36 AM

Agreed.

T99 contributes a ton and is obviously intelligent, but Bingo et. al. should ban his SCREAMING in capital letters. There is no need for it. Seriously.
What the hell are you talking about?

What screaming?
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Tkachuk is more like Marchand than the other guys though. He's really ****ing good. He's just a total butthole.
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Old 07-05-2005, 11:25 PM   #35
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Quote:
Originally posted by okotoker+Jul 5 2005, 09:40 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (okotoker @ Jul 5 2005, 09:40 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin-Reggie Dunlop@Jul 5 2005, 09:36 PM
Andrew:

Who's your favorite character from the movie Slap Shot?
That movie sucked. [/b][/quote]
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Old 07-05-2005, 11:27 PM   #36
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Dear god can this not turn into the Ken King debacle.. Lay low okotoker!! Prepare for the ensuing bombardment..

At least we know that there are some players out there who actually do know what the fans have to say and can use that in their discussions with their brethren.. Makes me breathe a little easier.
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Old 07-05-2005, 11:27 PM   #37
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Quote:
Originally posted by northernflame@Jul 5 2005, 09:36 PM
Agreed.

T99 contributes a ton and is obviously intelligent, but Bingo et. al. should ban his SCREAMING in capital letters. There is no need for it. Seriously.
Not trying to get in the middle of your love-in, but I checked tranny's posts in this thread, and he capitilized a grand total of 3 words.

I use them as well once in a while, for emphasis, not screaming.

IMO, no need for a ban of it.

But, I digress..............carry on.
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Old 07-05-2005, 11:28 PM   #38
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Quote:
Originally posted by Reggie Dunlop+Jul 5 2005, 10:41 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Reggie Dunlop @ Jul 5 2005, 10:41 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'>
Quote:
Originally posted by okotoker@Jul 5 2005, 09:40 PM
<!--QuoteBegin-Reggie Dunlop
Quote:
@Jul 5 2005, 09:36 PM
Andrew:

Who's your favorite character from the movie Slap Shot?

That movie sucked.
[/b][/quote]
Dirty old man!!
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Old 07-05-2005, 11:28 PM   #39
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Originally posted by okotoker@Jul 5 2005, 10:34 PM
. Thanks for letting me drop in once and a while and you can be assured that you won't get a "superior" attitude from my posts, just throwing in my two cents.
I wish more players would come on and tell us their $0.02. It's a lot easier to side with someone when you get their opinions directly, and not through the media. I know it probably wasn't possible to do so the last few months, but I think I speak for a lot of people on here when I say I appreciate you coming on and expressing an opinion.
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Old 07-05-2005, 11:29 PM   #40
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Andrew:

Who's your favorite character from the movie Slap Shot?
Jeez, I haven't posted in months, but for some reason that has me in hysterics here.
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