2023/24 Blue Jays Off Season Thread

[ben voyonsdonc]

Originally Posted by Inferno

Green is on a club option.

Green’s options are almost as complicated as the Flames conditions on their first to Montreal in the Monahan trade. Ultimately he is absolutely going to be a Blue Jay next season but probably two.

I also qualify Chapman. He’s a Boras client so there is absolutely no chance he is going to sign it so it’s a no risk proposition.

I think Kirk is a solid catcher but he isn’t good at throwing runners out which is becoming more of an issue. As a hitter, he has lost all of his power and isn’t a guy you ever want coming up with guys on with less than two outs or on base in a crucial situation. It literally requires a triple or a home run to get home when he’s on first base. It really diminishes his value. Last year would have been the year to move him but I think every other team knows that a 265 pound guy at 5’8 is never going to be a long term solution…even as an all star his value was probably pretty low. I still would have taken whatever we’d have gotten for him to keep Moreno around.

The team needs to set some very clear expectations around fitness for Kirk, Guerrero, and Manoah. They need to come to camp absolutely at peak fitness. Kirk should be no more than 220. Manoah should be 275. Guerrero should be at least as good shape as he was in 2021. They have all of the resources that they could ever need to do this. There are no excuses. They are all getting older and bodies break down faster as they age. The need for fitness gets higher as they age.

It’s concerning to me that key guys simply cannot put themselves in the best position to be successful. Vlad knows how much better he played when he was super fit and he still allowed himself to regress. It makes me question his commitment to success.

[Yoho]

https://twitter.com/user/status/1709888933645992410

[bluejays]

Originally Posted by ben voyonsdonc

Green’s options are almost as complicated as the Flames conditions on their first to Montreal in the Monahan trade. Ultimately he is absolutely going to be a Blue Jay next season but probably two.

I also qualify Chapman. He’s a Boras client so there is absolutely no chance he is going to sign it so it’s a no risk proposition.

I think Kirk is a solid catcher but he isn’t good at throwing runners out which is becoming more of an issue. As a hitter, he has lost all of his power and isn’t a guy you ever want coming up with guys on with less than two outs or on base in a crucial situation. It literally requires a triple or a home run to get home when he’s on first base. It really diminishes his value. Last year would have been the year to move him but I think every other team knows that a 265 pound guy at 5’8 is never going to be a long term solution…even as an all star his value was probably pretty low. I still would have taken whatever we’d have gotten for him to keep Moreno around.

The team needs to set some very clear expectations around fitness for Kirk, Guerrero, and Manoah. They need to come to camp absolutely at peak fitness. Kirk should be no more than 220. Manoah should be 275. Guerrero should be at least as good shape as he was in 2021. They have all of the resources that they could ever need to do this. There are no excuses. They are all getting older and bodies break down faster as they age. The need for fitness gets higher as they age.

It’s concerning to me that key guys simply cannot put themselves in the best position to be successful. Vlad knows how much better he played when he was super fit and he still allowed himself to regress. It makes me question his commitment to success.

I agree with everything but Vlad. Something is a heartbreaking about what he's going through. I know he's paid millions to be a pro and certainly he's doing minimal, but it really is hard to focus when health concerns about someone you love, is ongoing. Some people can block it but it's clear Vlad can't. It's part of his psyche, and I really hope they have a team psychiatrist around to help him. I also don't know what baseball rules are for off-seasons but if they can give him and others support while having a trainer full time working with them, that would be super helpful.

[ben voyonsdonc]

Vlad’s regression wasn’t limited to this year. It’s been a decline over the past two years. I can give some grace if it was a sudden decline but the Vlad that we saw in 2021 is little more than an apparition at this point.

Vlad can’t necessarily control the results but he can control the input. He can control the shape that he into camp. He can control the mental/psychological mindset work that he can do in the offseason. If he works like a professional in the offseason, he gives himself the best chance to recapture the player that he once was.

[Underdog]

He can control NOT swinging at the first damn pitch every at bat!!!

[bizaro86]

Originally Posted by ben voyonsdonc

Green’s options are almost as complicated as the Flames conditions on their first to Montreal in the Monahan trade. Ultimately he is absolutely going to be a Blue Jay next season but probably two.

From Sportrac:

Contract Notes:
2024-2026 Conditions
3 year, $27M club option ($9M/year), if declined:
1 year, $6.25M player option, if declined:
2 year, $21M club option ($10.5M/year)

Which of the 3 do you think we end up with for him?

[Roof-Daddy]

Originally Posted by bizaro86

From Sportrac:



Which of the 3 do you think we end up with for him?

Gonna be interesting to see where they land. I don't think he'd take the player option if the Jays decline the first team option, and I'm not sure if you want to commit three years to a 32.5 year old reliever...but he was still very good when he came back.

It'll be one of the team options IMO, hopefully the 2 year.

[flambers]

Watching the interview with Atkins, he is saying it was the managers decision to pull Berrios.

[Jiri Hrdina]

Schneider returning
That’s not gonna go over well

[transplant99]

Saturday morning of a long weekend to answer the questions eh?

Coward.

[bizaro86]

Originally Posted by flambers

Watching the interview with Atkins, he is saying it was the managers decision to pull Berrios.

I'd be interested to know if he would have given the same answer without the benefit of hindsight.

If it had worked I wonder if we'd have gotten something more like "on such an important decision there was of course input from the front office and we think the manager made the right final call"

[transplant99]

Lol!

https://twitter.com/user/status/1710674272778146032

[Patek23]

Youd hope someone higher up is watching this and puts the dominoes in effect to remove Atkins.

[Inferno]

More like Ross Coward.

They won't but fans need to speak with their wallet until changes are made.

[KelVarnsen]

Sigh

[nieuwy-89]

Wow, totally threw Schneider under the bus. Strong leadership there.

[Whynotnow]

What a mess of a press conference. Easy for him to have made this all go away. Just say we are a team here, we contributed by putting the data in his hands that resulted in the change. Even then he also needed to pivot to, the changes we made to shore up defence last season worked but we didn’t provide enough offense for our team to work on, and the needs to change.

What free agent pitcher is excited to sign there now after this fiasco?

[KelVarnsen]

Atkins showing his true colours

[transplant99]

Debacle really.

Clearly a lot of dysfunction throughout the organization.

That starts at the top and where all eyes/blame should be locked on.

[bluejays]

I think Atkins should go. I’d venture to guess Schneider felt internal pressure of “what would Atkins want” if there’s that culture around the team. Glass half full but perhaps Atkins and crew can train him on statistics and how to use it and when to throw out the playbook. It was kind of scummy to throw Schneider under the bus as a leader, which will not play out well with regards to himself. However he did stand behind him saying he’ll be back so perhaps his message didn’t come out how he wanted to and he personally would like a redo.

Anyway, if they keep Atkins, which I hope they don’t, all we can hope is Rogers gives him money to correct his mess ups. Because there’s a ton of work to do. Perhaps more than ever in any one offseason.