2017/2018 Trade Speculation and Rumors

[ComixZone]

Originally Posted by GreenLantern2814

On many levels, I am sprinting away from a Kylington and Stone for Evander Kane deal.

Michael Stone is a solid player with good size who can move the puck, on a great contract. He's a PK beast.

Kylington is in his 3rd AHL season and he's 20. Why put the time into a project like that to trade him for Evander Kane?

Evander Kane has had track suits thrown in showers. When Fat Byfuglien thinks you're not working hard enough...

A week ago he's getting punched by teammates in practice because he's a cancer.

He's a bad gamble, IMO. He's a bad gamble as a rental, and he's a terrible gamble for an extension.

I didn't mean to say specifically that Kane is THE player we should go after, just that we do have the pieces to acquire a pretty significant player thanks to our strong defensive prospects.

I'm not hugely against Kane for character issues or anything, because I think a lot of that stuff gets overblown, but he's not first choice. My first choice is Mike Hoffman. I think he addresses our need perfectly, and should be able to be had for a similar package.

[ComixZone]

Originally Posted by Bingo

I think Rasmus Andersson is on his way, but you don't have to do it mid season.

Wouldn't hurt though to have a war room discussion on the value of Michael Stone and Travis Hamonic at the June draft, set the level and then see if someone blows that away at the deadline.

There's risk in assuming Andersson is ready. There's risk in injury to a veteran and a diminished depth chart to fill it in, but if someone is willing to significantly over play you have too look at it.

Agreed, the only way in which moving Stone can begin to make since is if the organization sees Fox as not only turning pro, but someone who could jump straight to the NHL this season....which is probably a bit far fetched.

[dammage79]

Jeez! Fox sails right over Andersson in this scenario? Anderson n is the Rodney Dangerfield of RHD Flames prospects apparently.

Edit: I don't think there's any risk Andersson is ready. I had him ready out of camp just like I had Jankowski ready out of camp.

If the Flames move an RHD for scoring help, they'll be just fine.

[ComixZone]

Originally Posted by dammage79

Jeez! Fox sails right over Andersson in this scenario? Anderson n is the Rodney Dangerfield of RHD Flames prospects apparently.

Edit: I don't think there's any risk Andersson is ready. I had him ready out of camp just like I had Jankowski ready out of camp.

If the Flames move an RHD for scoring help, they'll be just fine.

Maybe not sails right over, but in order to move Stone - you need to be able to replace him with NHL ready talent. So if Andersson takes Stone's spot, Fox needs to be ready to take Andersson's spot as the 1st call-up/replacement for a RHD.

[Tinordi]

Flames almost certainly will trade from the defence in 2018. Roster is imbalanced at the moment. One of the issues that's holding them back is the lack of trust the organization has in Hamilton. That might be changing now but throughout this season they just do not trust Hamilton to be the last man back. That's why he doesn't get PP1 or overtime shifts.

Trading a guy like Brodie for top six help on the wing seems incredibly logical. And it should be very manageable with this defensive unit and having Giordano specifically. Gio can single handedly get a guy to play over his head. So you could move someone like kulak into the top four with Giordano. But the Flames seem really reluctant to separate Hamilton from Giordano for fear that he'll be exposed as a guy who had to run his own pairing.

Strange situation.

[neo45]

Originally Posted by Tinordi

Flames almost certainly will trade from the defence in 2018. Roster is imbalanced at the moment. One of the issues that's holding them back is the lack of trust the organization has in Hamilton. That might be changing now but throughout this season they just do not trust Hamilton to be the last man back. That's why he doesn't get PP1 or overtime shifts.

Trading a guy like Brodie for top six help on the wing seems incredibly logical. And it should be very manageable with this defensive unit and having Giordano specifically. Gio can single handedly get a guy to play over his head. So you could move someone like kulak into the top four with Giordano. But the Flames seem really reluctant to separate Hamilton from Giordano for fear that he'll be exposed as a guy who had to run his own pairing.

Strange situation.

I don’t think you are putting enough thought into right/shot left shot; which the org clearly values.


Trading Brodie and putting Gio with Kulak would leave us with Hamonic, Hamilton, Stone, and Rasmus as the remaining D core. All right shots

[Vinny01]

We clearly have a coaching staff that wants to play left shots on the left side and right shots on the right side.

How is it remotely logical that Brodie is the guy to trade

Right side- Hamilton (24) Hamonic (27) Stone (27) Anderson (21) Fox (19)
Left side- Giordano (34) Brodie (27) Kulak (25) Kylington (20) Valimaki (18)

Not only are the Flames far deeper in the right side, the prospects are better and further ahead on the right side as well.

[Demetric]

Stone should be the first D on block for an upgrade up front, not Brodie. Out of all the D prospects in Stockton, Rasmus is the most ready.

[ComixZone]

Originally Posted by Vinny01

We clearly have a coaching staff that wants to play left shots on the left side and right shots on the right side.

How is it remotely logical that Brodie is the guy to trade

Right side- Hamilton (24) Hamonic (27) Stone (27) Anderson (21) Fox (19)
Left side- Giordano (34) Brodie (27) Kulak (25) Kylington (20) Valimaki (18)

Not only are the Flames far deeper in the right side, the prospects are better and further ahead on the right side as well.

Debatable.

The Athletic's Corey Pronman did an article on the top 50 drafted prospects and has them ranked Fox (16th) > Kylington (28th) > Valimaki (39th) > Andersson (unranked).

This is I believe the 2nd time we've seen a ranking of these sorts where Andersson is lower than where CP believes he is. It will be interesting to see how these 4 d-men sort out over the coming months/years.

While Andersson may be the "most ready", it's hard to argue for/against any of these young players as none of them have proven anything at the NHL level.

[Tinordi]

Originally Posted by Demetric

Stone should be the first D on block for an upgrade up front, not Brodie. Out of all the D prospects in Stockton, Rasmus is the most ready.

I'm talking about getting a top six forward which you aren't getting for Stone. Brodie or Hamonic (but difficult to see the Flames moving him) are the pieces you can trade without irreparably damaging the defence that could bring in a scoring winger.

Infact the market for defense is pretty flush right now, guys who are available include:

Johnson, Martin, Phaneuf, Green. Does Michael Stone command a premium over those guys?

[Love]

I’m taking Stone pretty easily over all of those guys Tinordi

[ForeverFlameFan]

Originally Posted by Tinordi

I'm talking about getting a top six forward which you aren't getting for Stone. Brodie or Hamonic (but difficult to see the Flames moving him) are the pieces you can trade without irreparably damaging the defence that could bring in a scoring winger.

Infact the market for defense is pretty flush right now, guys who are available include:

Johnson, Martin, Phaneuf, Green. Does Michael Stone command a premium over those guys?

Yes. Want to know why? Because 1) He's not a pending UFA, has a reasonable 2 years at 3m per after this season.

2) He's capable of playing on the 2nd pairing.

I'm sure he could command a decent return. Not a 1st rounder by any means, but something good for sure.

[SuperMatt18]

Originally Posted by Tinordi

I'm talking about getting a top six forward which you aren't getting for Stone. Brodie or Hamonic (but difficult to see the Flames moving him) are the pieces you can trade without irreparably damaging the defence that could bring in a scoring winger.

Infact the market for defense is pretty flush right now, guys who are available include:

Johnson, Martin, Phaneuf, Green. Does Michael Stone command a premium over those guys?

Depends on if you want term or not.

Johnson: UFA - 31 - $4.4m
Martin : 1 year - 36 - $4.85m
Phaneuf: 3 years - 32 - $7.0m
Green: UFA - 32 - $6.0m

Stone: 2 years - 27 - $3.5m

For a pure UFA I'd probably go with Johnson. $4.4M isn't a terrible salary and it done after this season. But if you want a guy with some term left I would take Stone before Martin and Phaneuf for sure.

[Enoch Root]

Originally Posted by Tinordi

Flames almost certainly will trade from the defence in 2018. Roster is imbalanced at the moment. One of the issues that's holding them back is the lack of trust the organization has in Hamilton. That might be changing now but throughout this season they just do not trust Hamilton to be the last man back. That's why he doesn't get PP1 or overtime shifts.

Trading a guy like Brodie for top six help on the wing seems incredibly logical. And it should be very manageable with this defensive unit and having Giordano specifically. Gio can single handedly get a guy to play over his head. So you could move someone like kulak into the top four with Giordano. But the Flames seem really reluctant to separate Hamilton from Giordano for fear that he'll be exposed as a guy who had to run his own pairing.

Strange situation.

For the year, the Flames are 17th in goals for per game and 9th in goals against. Since November 1st, they are tied for 7th in goals for with Washington, and are 19th in goals against. Since December 1st, they are 11th in goals for and 4th in goals against.

Obviously things ebb and flow with small sample sizes, but I don't see anything that suggests they are imbalanced. I would say they are about league average offensively, and top 1/3 defensively, which seems like a pretty good mix to me. All trading Brodie would do is reverse those things.

By comparison, NYI are 2nd in goals for but 31st in goals against. Now that is an imbalanced team!

Also, if they don't trust Hamilton, why would they trade away one of their top 4 Dmen?

I can see the Flames eventually trading a defenseman for a forward, but not until they are convinced that one of the prospects is ready to fill the void. And I think that will happen on the right side before the left side. I could see them trying to move Stone because Andersson is pushing in, as early as next year.

But I think the chances of them trading Brodie this year are remote. They are finally in the top 3rd of the league defensively, I doubt they are looking to mess with that any time soon.

[Parallex]

Originally Posted by Tinordi

Johnson, Martin, Phaneuf, Green. Does Michael Stone command a premium over those guys?

Those guys are as bad as Stone (and/or have worse contracts either in year or in totality).

[blender]

Originally Posted by Tinordi

Flames almost certainly will trade from the defence in 2018. Roster is imbalanced at the moment. One of the issues that's holding them back is the lack of trust the organization has in Hamilton. That might be changing now but throughout this season they just do not trust Hamilton to be the last man back. That's why he doesn't get PP1 or overtime shifts.

Trading a guy like Brodie for top six help on the wing seems incredibly logical. And it should be very manageable with this defensive unit and having Giordano specifically. Gio can single handedly get a guy to play over his head. So you could move someone like kulak into the top four with Giordano. But the Flames seem really reluctant to separate Hamilton from Giordano for fear that he'll be exposed as a guy who had to run his own pairing.

Strange situation.

Good post, but I would argue that it is possible that the Flames are keeping Dougie with Gio simply because he is their future D1 and because he is so young still, they want him learning from their best.

I don't see it as strange at all. As good as he is, and also because of his flaws, Hamilton is not yet a finished product. I see it as another example of the patience that is characteristic of the Flames management group.

[TheFlamesVan]

Originally Posted by Parallex

Those guys are as bad as Stone (and/or have worse contracts either in year or in totality).

Yeah yeah whatever, the point of the post was if you think Stone lands you a top 6 winger. I don't.

[Parallex]

Originally Posted by TheFlamesVan

Yeah yeah whatever, the point of the post was if you think Stone lands you a top 6 winger. I don't.

Oh heck no. I think Stone might be able to land you something that could be packaged with something else to get that though.

[TheFlamesVan]

Originally Posted by Parallex

Oh heck no. I think Stone might be able to land you something that could be packaged with something else to get that though.

Or. Keep the 'something else' and move Brodie. That would be my preference as I think the farm can fill that hole (future) and the Flames have 4 d-men that can eat those minutes this season.

[Tinordi]

Originally Posted by Love

I’m taking Stone pretty easily over all of those guys Tinordi

Sure, but if you're a team that wants help on D and at least those guys are available for a song, are you really going to give up a top six forward to get Stone? No, no you're not. Which is my point.