where there's smoke they're fire. If even half of what coming out it true, everyone involved in managing the production should be nailed to the wall.
Makes you think about how many low budget productions are done half assed just like this one, except without the big star involved. Probably amazing there haven't been many more deaths in the industry.
I did a quick google, and saw this article posted the other day about film set safety.
The Associated Press, in an investigation of accidents on U.S. film and television sets in 2016, found that at least 43 people have died on set since 1990 and more than 150 have suffered life-altering injuries. It tallied at least 37 people who have died in filming accidents outside the United States since 2000 and “many more” who were seriously injured.
Of course just like the sexual assaults in the business there is always the fear of not working.
"Prosecutions were rarely pursued, the outlet noted, as “most workers are legally barred from suing, and those that do encounter the reluctance of witnesses to come forward for fear of being rendered unemployable in the ultracompetitive entertainment industry.”
This will hopefully become more the standard now:
Others in the industry said there was no reason for guns to be loaded with blanks — or anything else — on set, given what’s possible in postproduction work. “There’s computers now,” Craig Zobel, a filmmaker known for his work on such productions as the HBO series, “The Mare of Easttown,” wrote on Twitter. “The gunshots [on my series] are all digital. You can probably tell, but who cares? It’s an unnecessary risk.”
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This is insightful on props and firearms "prop guns" on set. This youtube channel is typically lighthearted, but he weighs in on the incident in terms of how firearms are supposed to be handled on set.
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Last edited by YYC in LAX; 10-25-2021 at 08:35 AM.
Maybe if the union hadn't put money above all else in the most recent joke of a strike threat maybe they could have addressed some of these safety concerns on set. I don't really have a say one way or another about guns on set but I don't really think guns are the real issue. And heck my company would benefit from no guns on set with the VFX work. It is over worked and under experienced people in positions they have no business being in. But it is up and down the production set. There are people literally plucked off of the street 4 or 5 years ago that are in charge of departments and even productions. And the majority of the management is self or industry taught, most have little to no training outside of production sets.
I don not believe there have been any deaths related to guns on set in Canada but I can speak to three deaths in 20 years two being stunt related and one in transport. All involving inexperienced people asked to do things they should not have been doing.
Time will pass and everyone will forget about this just like Sarah Jones.
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That last paragraph is important. No more needless gun deaths, get rid of live weapons on set.
I get mildly annoyed where there is absolutely zero kickback from guns being fired in a show/movie.
But it's not enough to ruin said show/movie.
Walking Dead is full of digital gunfire and it doesn't take away from the show. But it is kinda funny seeing a tiny 110lb actress firing off an AR-15 with no kickback at all though. Of course, if you can suspend belief enough to watch zombies, you can suspend belief and watch digital gunfire.
Pretty much nothing about gun play in movies is realistic anyway, so what's one more little niggle?
And do people really care that much about the realism?
John Wick is great because of it, but the actors took extensive training.
So I think the agreement should be if you have extensive firearms training, you should be allowed to use live weapons on set. If you don't, it has to be VFX.
But still, no matter whether it is a live weapon or not, verified empty, verified full, etc, etc....there is ZERO excuse for pointing ANY gun in the direction of the people working on the set.
Zero. Baldwin should be charged. If you speed and kill someone, you get charged. If you put a gun in the direction of someone, and there is a discharge, you should get charged. End of story.
The irony. He wanted to remove guns from society because people can't be trusted with them, but he himself can work with 'live' weapons, and even put multiple people in harms way without repercussions. If he's done it on this set, he's done it on all sets IMO. Every single person I know who has no common sense when it comes to gun safety is unsafe all the time, with all guns.
where there's smoke they're fire. If even half of what coming out it true, everyone involved in managing the production should be nailed to the wall.
Makes you think about how many low budget productions are done half assed just like this one, except without the big star involved. Probably amazing there haven't been many more deaths in the industry.
I did a quick google, and saw this article posted the other day about film set safety.
The Associated Press, in an investigation of accidents on U.S. film and television sets in 2016, found that at least 43 people have died on set since 1990 and more than 150 have suffered life-altering injuries. It tallied at least 37 people who have died in filming accidents outside the United States since 2000 and “many more” who were seriously injured.
Of course just like the sexual assaults in the business there is always the fear of not working.
"Prosecutions were rarely pursued, the outlet noted, as “most workers are legally barred from suing, and those that do encounter the reluctance of witnesses to come forward for fear of being rendered unemployable in the ultracompetitive entertainment industry.”
This will hopefully become more the standard now:
Others in the industry said there was no reason for guns to be loaded with blanks — or anything else — on set, given what’s possible in postproduction work. “There’s computers now,” Craig Zobel, a filmmaker known for his work on such productions as the HBO series, “The Mare of Easttown,” wrote on Twitter. “The gunshots [on my series] are all digital. You can probably tell, but who cares? It’s an unnecessary risk.”
Hasn't it been known forever that a lot of the people working on the various jobs on set, union or otherwise are always treated like ####?
I mean you have multiple examples of sexual assault, injuries on set that get covered up, harassment, ####ty work conditions, ####ty work environment, and then all these rich actors want to get up and tell the world how the rest of us are doing it all wrong. Screw them all.
But still, no matter whether it is a live weapon or not, verified empty, verified full, etc, etc....there is ZERO excuse for pointing ANY gun in the direction of the people working on the set.
Huh? How do you think they film scenes where people are shooting at eachother? You don't think they point guns at one another? Or in this case, rehearsing a scene where the gun gets pointed at the camera
Quote:
Zero. Baldwin should be charged. If you speed and kill someone, you get charged. If you put a gun in the direction of someone, and there is a discharge, you should get charged. End of story.
Yeah, that makes a lot of sense. So if some idiot puts a live round in a gun and hands it to an actor during a shooting scene, it's the actor's fault? It'd be like blaming a driver for an accident if their mechanic cut their brake lines.
If Baldwin is going to get charged, it'll be as his role as a producer if it's found that there was significant ongoing negligence regarding safety (which I assume there would be if there was a live round on set)
Hasn't it been known forever that a lot of the people working on the various jobs on set, union or otherwise are always treated like ####?
I mean you have multiple examples of sexual assault, injuries on set that get covered up, harassment, ####ty work conditions, ####ty work environment, and then all these rich actors want to get up and tell the world how the rest of us are doing it all wrong. Screw them all.
you are correct.
I don't think Galakanokis up above is correct in his analysis on the recent strike threat. Sure it was for more money as they have been paid poverty wages.
but it was also about working conditions. Maybe there would be less injuries and deaths on set if the working conditions were better and not having to work unlimited hours with little to no rest breaks, meal breaks or proper turnaround time between shifts.
People working on set are not involved in the movie (i.e not the actors).
Because of the danger that even blank rounds pose, there is ZERO excuse for fooling around with a weapon on set. Zero excuse for rehearsing a scene by saying 'oh this is how I will draw my gun and fire it' when you're within the distance of where the blanks can hurt someone. If the scene is being filmed and blanks are being used, generally nobody SHOULD within the danger distance which I believe is 5-10'.
If people are within the danger distance, blanks are generally not used and they opt for VFX.
This is standard gun safety. Prop gun or not. Baldwin screwed up, and should be charged.
I don't think Galakanokis up above is correct in his analysis on the recent strike threat. Sure it was for more money as they have been paid poverty wages.
but it was also about working conditions. Maybe there would be less injuries and deaths on set if the working conditions were better and not having to work unlimited hours with little to no rest breaks, meal breaks or proper turnaround time between shifts.
Every once in a while there is a blip in the news for a possible strike, and when you did down you realize those highly paid bastards are completely fine with hundreds of people, perhaps thousands working on a set to make a movie in the crappiest conditions ever, and none of them say a word.
From what I've read, there are actors that don't allow it to happen (Tom Cruise), but many turn a blind eye, and have for many years.
This whole thing has been an issue for years, and has been hard to change and it very much has to do with the fact that the big dogs don't give a crap and are fine abusing these people to make their millions. That includes actors, directors, producers, etc.
There are hundreds and hundreds of injuries every year and very little gets done about it.
I don't think Galakanokis up above is correct in his analysis on the recent strike threat. Sure it was for more money as they have been paid poverty wages.
but it was also about working conditions. Maybe there would be less injuries and deaths on set if the working conditions were better and not having to work unlimited hours with little to no rest breaks, meal breaks or proper turnaround time between shifts.
My comment is 100% accurate. The union basically got zero changes around working conditions for a 3% annual raise. The only major change and which is minor at best is a 10 hour turn around from 8. That's it.
Typing on the go here...
It is obviously a complex issue but in general the union did nothing to address the big concerns around safety and working conditions on set. But the biggest concern around safety which they will never address is lack of experience. They, the union and producers push people through like a factory.
Last edited by Galakanokis; 10-25-2021 at 12:03 PM.
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I don't think Galakanokis up above is correct in his analysis on the recent strike threat. Sure it was for more money as they have been paid poverty wages.
but it was also about working conditions. Maybe there would be less injuries and deaths on set if the working conditions were better and not having to work unlimited hours with little to no rest breaks, meal breaks or proper turnaround time between shifts.
As someone who knows Gala, I'd be pretty cautious before discounting his knowledge of the film industry.
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And do people really care that much about the realism?
John Wick is great because of it, but the actors took extensive training.
So I think the agreement should be if you have extensive firearms training, you should be allowed to use live weapons on set. If you don't, it has to be VFX.
But still, no matter whether it is a live weapon or not, verified empty, verified full, etc, etc....there is ZERO excuse for pointing ANY gun in the direction of the people working on the set.
Zero. Baldwin should be charged. If you speed and kill someone, you get charged. If you put a gun in the direction of someone, and there is a discharge, you should get charged. End of story.
The irony. He wanted to remove guns from society because people can't be trusted with them, but he himself can work with 'live' weapons, and even put multiple people in harms way without repercussions. If he's done it on this set, he's done it on all sets IMO. Every single person I know who has no common sense when it comes to gun safety is unsafe all the time, with all guns.
I don't see any reason to ever have live guns used if VFX works ok, regardless of training
John Wick is a worse movie for having digital flashes and blood spurts, safety concerns aside, it looks way better to use blanks and squibs. There's a visceral response that is lost when things have to be added in post production. I've never seen a digital blood spurt that had anywhere near the impact of this classic from Robocop, there isn't a single kill in any JW that can compare:
