10-17-2016, 10:51 AM
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#101
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Franchise Player
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: Chicago
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Calgary4LIfe
Actually, you may disagree with Hartley's system, but it was tailor-made for Calgary.
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Not certain that Hartley's system was or wasn't tailor made for Calgary. What I am certain of is that it was tailor made for never winning a Stanley Cup.
I also know that after Mike Sullivan was brought in as Penguins coach mid December last year, and changed up the 'systems', the Pens lost 3 straight and managed only 5 wins in his first 14 games behind the bench. The Flames are not to be confused with the Penguins, and when a team that good has a significant adjustment period, I think we can expect it all to take a little time.
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10-17-2016, 10:54 AM
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#102
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Franchise Player
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Calgary
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Street Pharmacist
That may be, but you can kiss playoffs goodbye if you get behind in the first 20
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Didn't Anaheim win our division last year after getting behind in the first twenty? They were literally in the Auston Matthews sweepstakes at one point.
__________________
"May those who accept their fate find happiness. May those who defy it find glory."
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10-17-2016, 10:59 AM
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#103
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Franchise Player
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: Chicago
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Street Pharmacist
That may be, but you can kiss playoffs goodbye if you get behind in the first 20
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Get 12 points in the first 22 games and you need to go 7-3 in every 10 game segment left.
We probably won't know what kind of the team we have until then, but we better have a lot better team in these first 20 than we have seen so far.
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10-17-2016, 11:04 AM
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#104
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First Line Centre
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Lethbridge
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hockey.modern
For the advanced stats fans:
Christian Roatis @CRoatis
#Flames are Top 5 in CF% among teams that have played >1game and bottom 5 in PDO.
In English: they're unlucky to be 0-2-1. Deep breaths.
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PDO is of little to no value.
Made up by an Oilers fan thus by definition, no good.
Last edited by automaton 3; 10-17-2016 at 11:08 AM.
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10-17-2016, 12:51 PM
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#106
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In the Sin Bin
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GranteedEV
Out of curiosity, how much video of his body of work in Dallas did you analyze?
Because Treliving analyzed a lot of it on video and was impressed by it.
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That's an appeal to authority fallacy.
The Flames were impressed with Craig Button's work in Dallas too.
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10-17-2016, 12:53 PM
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#107
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Franchise Player
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Calgary
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Resolute 14
That's an appeal to authority fallacy.
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No, it's actually an appeal to "someone who analyzed the video".
__________________
"May those who accept their fate find happiness. May those who defy it find glory."
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10-17-2016, 12:53 PM
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#108
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Lifetime Suspension
Join Date: Jul 2015
Location: Hmmmmmmm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hockey.modern
For the advanced stats fans:
Christian Roatis @CRoatis
#Flames are Top 5 in CF% among teams that have played >1game and bottom 5 in PDO.
In English: they're unlucky to be 0-2-1. Deep breaths.
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You don't give up 12 breakaways in 2 games because you're unlucky.
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10-17-2016, 12:55 PM
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#109
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In the Sin Bin
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GranteedEV
No, it's actually an appeal to "someone who analyzed the video".
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So Treliving could not possibly have been wrong then?
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10-17-2016, 02:22 PM
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#110
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Powerplay Quarterback
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I didn't see much of the pre-season, but after three games in the regular season, my thought is that it's either awful or only Backlund and Frolik implement it properly.
Defensively, it reminds me of every other system we've had since Sutter: too much floating back, standing around, allowing shots from the outside, and hoping the opposition makes a mistake that leads to a turnover. All too often, it results in a great chance from the slot/high slot.
Offensively, I can't tell what we're supposed to be doing. Spring Johnny? Twice during the Vancouver game (once on the PP, once in overtime) Gaudreau and another forward (can't remember who on each occasion, may have been Monahan) wound up skating directly toward each other just above the top of the circles. It looked like there was supposed to be an exchange, but it wound up confused and a turn-over resulted. Otherwise, GG seemed to be hoping that the top line could play like the Sedins: cycle in the corner a little, come around the back of the net, make a cross-crease pass for a tap-in. The Canucks, unsurprisingly, were wise to it every single time.
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10-17-2016, 06:52 PM
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#111
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Powerplay Quarterback
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DoubleF
IMO for the system implementation:
Knowledge -> Habit -> Second nature
I am assuming most of the players are still between the knowledge and habit phase. I may be a little more patient than most, but I will be waiting till the end of November to make an opinion as I'd hope most players are within the habit phase and moving towards the second nature phase.
Similar to some other posters, I don't fully get what Gulutzan's system is. I know of the components he has spoken about, but I don't have a great visual understanding of it yet. He has stated that sometimes players fall back into old habits. Overall, it does seem like there are glimpses of the new system and then glimpses of the old system too. The old system showing up is a little inevitable. It was the second nature of most of the team for a few years.
I am not worried.
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I agree. Knowing a system is way different than employing it via split second decisions during moments in games, where a player would probably be way more likely to fall back on some previous habit than they would be in the video room or when staring at a whiteboard or whatever. That withstanding, some teams never take to the coach's system at all, and some systems just outright suck. However, my faith that Treliving did his due diligence here leads me to believe (for now at least) that this isn't what we're dealing with here.
__________________
Is your cat doing singing?
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10-17-2016, 08:25 PM
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#112
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Franchise Player
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: San Fernando Valley
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Three games into a season is still preseason hockey to an extent as lots of players are only just getting into game shape and sharp so it's not a given the team is going to play this way all season. Even though I'm no fan of the hire I believe it's pretty shortsighted to draw any conclusions from what we have seen to date. It's obvious Gulutzan doesn't have the benefit of the doubt with fans that a guy like Bruce Boudreau would get but all the same it's not fair to start judging the coach until later in the season.
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10-17-2016, 08:38 PM
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#113
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First Line Centre
Join Date: May 2011
Location: in the belly of the beast.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by EldrickOnIce
Get 12 points in the first 22 games and you need to go 7-3 in every 10 game segment left.
We probably won't know what kind of the team we have until then, but we better have a lot better team in these first 20 than we have seen so far.
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that really puts into perspective how important the start of the season is 7-3 is a tough thing to do
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10-17-2016, 09:46 PM
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#114
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RANDOM USER TITLE CHANGE
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: South Calgary
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Erick Estrada
Three games into a season is still preseason hockey to an extent as lots of players are only just getting into game shape and sharp so it's not a given the team is going to play this way all season. Even though I'm no fan of the hire I believe it's pretty shortsighted to draw any conclusions from what we have seen to date. It's obvious Gulutzan doesn't have the benefit of the doubt with fans that a guy like Bruce Boudreau would get but all the same it's not fair to start judging the coach until later in the season.
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I still don't think it's fair to trash Gulutzan this early. Treliving should rightfully catch all the flack if the wheels fall off at this stage.
The issues that plague the Flames are mainly personnel related, not systems, imo.
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10-20-2016, 08:06 PM
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#115
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Lifetime Suspension
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Im not sure if the team needs more time to understand and execute Gully's system or if the system itself is piss poor?
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10-20-2016, 08:12 PM
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#116
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Powerplay Quarterback
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Sunny California
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Quote:
Originally Posted by taco.vidal
Im not sure if the team needs more time to understand and execute Gully's system or if the system itself is piss poor?
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The team needs more time to understand a piss poor system.
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10-20-2016, 08:33 PM
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#117
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First Line Centre
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: Oshawa
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Ottawa's quite similar to the Flames in terms of expectations and getting a new coach etc. They are 3-1 including wins against their biggest rivals. Luckily, we have their scraps from last year coaching our team now.
__________________
Quote:
Somewhere Leon Trotsky is an Oilers fan, because who better demonstrates his philosophy of the permanent revolution?
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10-20-2016, 08:48 PM
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#118
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Franchise Player
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: CGY
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What happened to outworking teams every night. The flames look lazy and passive out there
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10-20-2016, 09:40 PM
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#119
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#1 Goaltender
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The flames have now lost to Vancouver, Edmonton twice and Carolina. They also barely beat the Sabres. If you go 1-3-1 against the basement dweller team, you too are a basement dweller.
Perhaps BT should have gone after Boucher, Boudreau, or MacClean, Cameron or another tried and tested coach that was on the market. It seemed stupid at the time to hire a young, inexperienced coach for a young, inexperienced team. The results shouldn't be surprising to anyone
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10-20-2016, 09:42 PM
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#120
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#1 Goaltender
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Also will add that Bob Hartley got fired, in part for the bad PP. It looks even worse under GG.
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