Yeah, the whole thing for lack of a better statement grosses me out.
The ever changing stories, the shut down of the committee investigating Vance, Saijan's story not carrying water. Now the highest person in the PMO knew about the details of this, and we're being led to believe that she didn't brief her boss?
Just reading the testimony about Vance, how a guy with so little character and honestly honor got to that position. And yeah Harper and his office had a twinge on this but they didn't have a whistle blower so Vance very easily lied and covered it up.
But even Vance's work and lies in the Norman trial with changing names in documents to get around disclosure.
We've had some really good CDC and senior officers through the history of the armed forces, but with Vance and McDonald both being caught with the hands in the cookie jar and the Military investigators literally either ignoring claims or attacking the victims to protect officers. Its embarrassing.
Honestly in a proper world Saijan should have been fired, not allowed to step down but been fired. But he's such a massive fund raiser for the Liberals that he's better protected then a mafia button man.
Its all so gross, and it makes me really angry.
Dude it isn't all on the Liberals, there is a rot in the Officer Corp. as well. It seems to have gotten progressively worse and worse. Hell the lack of affective leadership really came to light with the Airborne's issues and disbandment. Has it gotten better, clearly not.
Hell I can list numerous example of horrendous actions i witnessed by the Officer Corp. If the head is rotten it flows down to the body eventually poisoning everything, Sr and Jr NCM. I don't know the answer, but it the mess doesn't rest solely at the feet of the Liberals.
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Captain James P. DeCOSTE, CD, 18 Sep 1993
Corporal Jean-Marc H. BECHARD, 6 Aug 1993
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sliver
Just ignore me...I'm in a mood today.
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I don't disagree with that at all. The whole thing is a mess in all aspects. Maybe we just need to subcontract the whole thing out to the States (I kid I kid)
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My name is Ozymandias, King of Kings;
Members of a private Facebook group for military police have been mocking testimony made by the woman at the heart of allegations of inappropriate behaviour by Gen. Jonathan Vance. The aspersions targeting Maj. Kellie Brennan come after she appeared before a parliamentary committee probing high-level sexual misconduct in the Canadian Forces and said she does not believe military police will take the investigation into her allegations seriously.
Brennan testified during that committee that Vance was the father of two of her children.
“If you sleep with a senior rank you get good postings and promotion to support the bastards but no parenting and support from the senior rank,” one person in the Facebook group wrote in a comment posted about a link citing news of Brennan’s testimony.
“If the senior rank is a general then one should know better and you get nothing,” wrote another.
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Operation Honour turns out to be a joke. After the recomendations of the independant investigation by a former judge in 2015, nothing was done, it was ignored and wall papered and of course run by one of the worst (accused) offenders of all.
So now we have a report of 581 cases between 2015 and this year. Our esteemed defense minister is calling a press conference to say "I'm Sworry, we'll do better this time" and lay out some steps that will never be executed.
UCB you are absolutely right, there are a lot of bad officers in senior leadership, this kind of confirms it, but at the same time, the buck stops with the DND and with the Minister this was his hyped program. He really needs to be fired, but it won't happen.
Watching that press conference, it was embarrassing. Basically, we're going to do an independent investigation with a former judge (Was done in 2015 and they did nothing with it, except give it a cool name).
Then Saijan said "I'm sorry, we didn't have your backs) even though he knew and did nothing but ignore the allegations against his buddy.
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My name is Ozymandias, King of Kings;
Watching that press conference, it was embarrassing. Basically, we're going to do an independent investigation with a former judge (Was done in 2015 and they did nothing with it, except give it a cool name).
Then Saijan said "I'm sorry, we didn't have your backs) even though he knew and did nothing but ignore the allegations against his buddy.
Then this new 'investigation'
'Yeah we know we totally ignored everything during Op honour, and willfully turned a blind eye to some of the worst offenders, but maybe this time we'll pretend to do something different!'
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Finland's needs parallel our own so it will be interesting to see what they go with. If they start receiving their new fighters in three or four years we can buy their F-18s for cheap
Last edited by BloodFetish; 05-02-2021 at 07:37 PM.
Mercedes Stephenson asked him 5 times if he was aware of the Sexual nature of the allegations and wouldn't answer the question, but we should know by now that our defense minister is slimy and a accomplished liar. Even during the interview you could feel the contempt rolling off of Mercedes, she's been a star on this file. I mean in a world with a government with any integrity, Saijan and Telford would be fired. But Saijan raises a ton of money for the Liberals, and Telford is Trudeau's primary policy advisor. This thing is gross, the Liberals are going to kick the can down the road with a repeat of the last investigation, and the whole thing is gross.
Finland's needs parallel our own so it will be interesting to see what they go with. If they start receiving their new fighters in three or four years we can buy their F-18s for chea
Why are we buying for cheap, that's just a bad strategy, and we'd be buying end of life jets with no upgradiblity.
Strong pass. But the Gripen or the F-35. However knowing this government, knowing our incompetent procurement, and knowing the defense minister. We'll buy some biplanes designed by Lavelin, built by Bombardier for 50 million per plane, and when the wings fall off they'll blame Harper.
I expect we'll buy more rust buckets from Australia to address the so called fighter plane gap that Saijan lied about and kick the can down the road 20 years.
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My name is Ozymandias, King of Kings;
My gut said Gripen four years ago... I'm beginning to think that those in procurement do not have a gut.
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Its going to come down to the F-35 against the Gripen, and I think in an open competition, the F-35 will eek by.
The Superhornet just doesn't compare to those two, plus its a limited time airframe. The Rafale dropped out because it couldn't match to the requirements of the Canadian Airforce.
However my guy says we buy more used F-18's and our fleet limps along until it disintegrates.
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Look on my Works, ye Mighty, and despair!
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I would say the Block III Super Hornet is a better jet than the Gripen, but I agree that it likely doesn't get a hard look. Mostly because of price and politics, I don't see the government throwing Boeing a bone any time soon, and it is a lot of $ for a 4.5 gen plane
I would say the Block III Super Hornet is a better jet than the Gripen, but I agree that it likely doesn't get a hard look. Mostly because of price and politics, I don't see the government throwing Boeing a bone any time soon, and it is a lot of $ for a 4.5 gen plane
The Super Hornet really is at the end of its upgradibility cycle. I'm not saying its a bad jet at all. Its a really good plane, it worked as a carrier work horse, but there's a reason why the US Navy is replacing it.
I mean I think that the Block 3 is about 66 million US per plane.
The F35 is down to 80 million US per plane
The Gripen E might be the most expensive with an estimated cost of 85 million per copy.
I think they're estimating the cost per flight hour of the Gripen at $4700. The F-35 at up to 33,000 per hour. 18,000 per hour.
The F-35 is 5th generation and has a far superior sensor, EW and stealth system, the Gripen is probably the better dog fighter, but its estimated that the Gripen and any other 4 or 4.5 would have a lot of difficulty in seeing the F-35 who has a far better ability for an over the horizon kill then the Gripen. Also the F-35 has a better situational awareness suite, and interoperability is a key especially within NORAD.
The other question is economic benefits, It sounds like while Saab has a lot of neat contract aspects in terms of local maintenance, manufacturing the F-35 has shown economic benefits within the Canadian Aerospace industry.
Two other key areas, while the Griphen is more maneuverable and faster, (Gripen E is still in development) The F35 has a superior service ceiling which when combined with its avionics and sensors probably means it can see from a distance and fire from a lot safer space.
The F-35 can carry 18,000 pounds in terms of a weapons load The Gripen I think is about half that. Of course, I doubt you'll ever see the F-35 run a rhino load because stealth goes out the window.
I think the F-35 will have a much longer life then the Gripen E with greater expandibility and enhancement, especially with the rumored drone control ability.
I am intrigued by the Finland deal in terms of Finland getting a couple of Early Warning aircraft thrown in with the 60 fighters, but I don't think Finland is getting the E, but the C.
I like the Boeing deal of throwing in a squadron of growlers, but I doubt Canada would want or need a dedicated squadron of pure EW aircraft, though its a capability that Canada is sorely missing.
Canada really needs to decide on the airforce that they want going forward. I think its what's missing in the equation. If you want a small airforce with maximum survivability and strike capability then you go with the F35 and buy less aircraft. If you want a similar airforce to what we have now, then you buy the Gripen E when it becomes deploy able and get more aircraft.
I still believe that the government will make a hash on this, dither, not commit and continue to buy rust outs for another decade to keep the F-18's going.
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I would say the Block III Super Hornet is a better jet than the Gripen, but I agree that it likely doesn't get a hard look. Mostly because of price and politics, I don't see the government throwing Boeing a bone any time soon, and it is a lot of $ for a 4.5 gen plane
the Gripen E under development will be a superior more technologically advanced craft, though the super hornet is a heavy lifting aircraft.
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My name is Ozymandias, King of Kings;
I think they're estimating the cost per flight hour of the Gripen at $4700. The F-35 at up to 33,000 per hour. Hornet 18,000 per hour.
For Canada, this is an underappreciated selling point.
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"We don't even know who our best player is yet. It could be any one of us at this point." - Peter LaFleur, player/coach, Average Joe's Gymnasium
The aspersions targeting Maj. Kellie Brennan come after she appeared before a parliamentary committee probing high-level sexual misconduct in the 
