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Old 10-27-2010, 01:06 PM   #1
Raekwon
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Default Something I wish I knew about Paypal

Sorry for the long post.

In the past 10 years I used paypal for all my online purchases because I thought they protected me, well heres something I wish I knew.

The other night I signed up for a website (Not porn but I wish it was) this website offered access to software. So I figure why not at least I am protected so I fire off my $35 via paypal and i'm off. Email gets sent to me login/password everything is looking good. In the end the software does not do what its guaranteed to do and less than an hour later my access is revoked.

At this time I try to contact the company but no response so I open a dispute the only category that fits is "item not as described". 2 days go by and no response so I escalate my claim. Immediately after doing this Paypal closes my claim ruling against me as this falls under the "not covered in the protection policy".

Status

We're unable to decide this claim in your favor at this time. PayPal's Buyer Complaint Policy applies to the shipment of goods but not to disputes about merchandise quality.
What happens next
We encourage you to work directly with your seller to resolve this matter.


Case closed and no where on the site to dispute this so I call customer service. Customer service says the same thing I am not protected against this and there is nothing they can do, if they had alot of complaints they would investigate and possibly close the account. In the meantime he offered me the contact info for the seller. Turns out the "seller" collecting the money is an ecommerce website who collects the money for the real seller and won't give out this info so this will get me no where.

So in the end paypal and myself received no response from the seller and yet they refuse to do anything about it.
  • Oct 27, 2010 - PayPal: Email sent to buyer
  • Oct 24, 2010 - PayPal: Email sent to seller
  • Oct 24, 2010 - PayPal: Email sent to buyer
  • Oct 24, 2010 - Buyer: Dispute escalated to claim
  • Oct 24, 2010 - PayPal: Email sent to seller
  • Oct 24, 2010 - Buyer: Dispute filed
  • Oct 22, 2010 - PayPal: Email sent to seller
  • Oct 22, 2010 - PayPal: Email sent to buyer
  • Oct 22, 2010 - Buyer: Dispute filed
Here is the portion of the user agreement that states that you are screwed, this took the customer service rep about 15 minutes to find.
  1. PayPal Buyer Complaint Policy. The Buyer Complaint Policy is PayPal's process to help you resolve a problem directly with the Seller through the PayPal Resolution Center for purchases that are not eligible for PayPal Buyer Protection.
    The PayPal Buyer Complaint Policy is similar to PayPal Buyer Protection in that it enables buyers to file Disputes for Items Not Received (INR), or for items that are Significantly Not as Described (SNAD). By filing a Dispute, you can communicate with the Seller and attempt to resolve the problem. If you are unable to resolve the problem, you may escalate an Item Not Received (INR) Dispute to a Claim – but you may not escalate a Significantly Not as Described Dispute to a Claim. You may not file a dispute for a Personal Payment.
    Even though you may escalate an Item Not Received Dispute to a Claim, you are not guaranteed recovery. If the Claim is decided in your favor, your recovery is limited to the amounts that PayPal can recover from the Seller’s Account.
So in the end what service can Paypal offer me that my credit card cant? My credit card protects me but Paypal can't. In the end I guess I should have filed this dispute as a "did not recieve product" so let that be a lesson to me in the future even though my future does not involve paypal.

/rant
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Old 10-27-2010, 02:20 PM   #2
mykalberta
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This is why you always use a credit card with Paypal so you can lodge a dispute with them.

I have heard of this before and I dont do any direct cash transactions with them as a result.
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Old 10-27-2010, 02:27 PM   #3
Raekwon
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mykalberta View Post
This is why you always use a credit card with Paypal so you can lodge a dispute with them.

I have heard of this before and I dont do any direct cash transactions with them as a result.
Yeah I have a credit card backup because I thought it was convienient to use the direct pay from my bank account. I should have just left the credit card as my main form of payment. But if my credit card is my main form of payment why use paypal in the first place?
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Old 10-27-2010, 02:52 PM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Raekwon View Post
Yeah I have a credit card backup because I thought it was convienient to use the direct pay from my bank account. I should have just left the credit card as my main form of payment.
Even this might be problematic.. I've heard of situations like this where the paypal dispute doesn't get the job done, so you do a reverse charge on your credit card.. and paypal then closes your account (heaven help you if you have $$ in the account).

Mind you I actually did this once, ordered something, didn't get what was actually advertised, paypal didn't do anything, so I reversed the charges on my CC and got my $$ back, nothing about it from PayPal. So it's not guaranteed, but I have heard of it happening.

So then it's a question of what's the paypal account worth?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Raekwon View Post
But if my credit card is my main form of payment why use paypal in the first place?
The only reason I'd use paypal is because the vendor doesn't accept credit cards directly, and then I'd only do it for purchases where I'm ok with losing the full amount of the purchase if things go badly. I'm FAR more confident in the protection from my CC company.
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Old 10-27-2010, 04:24 PM   #5
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I filed a dispute with Paypal after iTunes cards I ordered from eBay were never shipped, and in fact never existed.

Paypal investigated, warned me it could take up to 30 days... I had my money refunded in 48 hours, no questions asked.

So I have nothing but good things to say about Paypal
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Old 10-27-2010, 06:14 PM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HeartsOfFire View Post
I filed a dispute with Paypal after iTunes cards I ordered from eBay were never shipped, and in fact never existed.

Paypal investigated, warned me it could take up to 30 days... I had my money refunded in 48 hours, no questions asked.

So I have nothing but good things to say about Paypal
I absolutely hate Paypal, but it's almost a necessity to have an account as everyone accepts payments from them.

If you are selling always ship with tracking # and delivery confirmation. I was screwed out of $400 for a GPS unit that was bought from me from a guy in France on ebay. I didn't have delivery confirmation and the dispute was initiated well before the buyer would even get the product (2 or 3 days after purchasing). Paypal wouldn't do a damn thing for me. I looked at this guys history and found another guy he screwed over on the same GPS unit. Sent an email to Paypal with links emails between myself and the other guy that got screwed etc... and they said there was nothing they could do even though it was blatantly obvious this was fraud!

If you are buying always use a credit card as mentioned in a previous post. I've disputed before and Paypal rejected my claim as the item was received. It was a defective JL Audio amp. Seller wouldn't respond to my emails etc... So I called up the credit card company and disputed it and got my money back.

I've had to deal with some other shady vendors and threatened to dispute. They didn't give a rats a$$ as they know Paypal will protect them. Once I figured this out I told them I would be doing the charge back through my cc and not Paypal and their account would likely be suspended. They sang a different tune after that.

Bottom line whether selling or buying is to Cover Your A$$!!
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Old 10-27-2010, 08:24 PM   #7
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Years ago, I bought a video card from ebay using Paypal. It said on the payment page that this is "insured" by ebay and Paypal.

Days go by, no response from the seller. Some more days. No response.

Emailed Paypal, they said they would open a case. They then email be back saying they can't contact the seller either, but I would have to wait 30 days from purchase date to continue the complaint. So I did.

So then they emailed me that the seller had closed his account, removed his account details and so on, thus they could not get the money to give it back to me. I then phoned them, and they insisted that they can't go get the money, thus I have no recourse.

They never did respond to me asking them what are they insuring then?

Never bought from ebay after that.

ers
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Old 10-28-2010, 05:32 AM   #8
Sluggo
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I always thought you could spend the cash in your account then pay the balance with your CC on paypal. I have yet to spend my complementary dollar from those bitches plus the 6 bucks a buddy gave me 8 years ago for a action figure.
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Old 10-28-2010, 09:44 AM   #9
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I always thought you could spend the cash in your account then pay the balance with your CC on paypal. I have yet to spend my complementary dollar from those bitches plus the 6 bucks a buddy gave me 8 years ago for a action figure.
You can spend whats in your account and then the balance will be made up with your primary method of payment.

Another one of my rules with paypal is always withdraw your payments to your bank account as soon as possible and never leave a balance. These crooks aren't regulated like a normal financial institution so they can pretty much do as they please.
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Old 10-28-2010, 10:10 AM   #10
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Definately not the type of thread I wanted to see today. I have to open up a dispute today.

Wife bought tickets to a game in Calgary as a surprise for me. Still haven't recieved them. Seller isn't responding. Whether we get our money back or not we still need to buy tickets for that games as she bought airplane tickets to Calgary. Luckily got till January to figure it out, but sounds like this could be a pain in my ass, lol.
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Old 11-03-2010, 06:16 PM   #11
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So quick question.

I just ordered something from eBay (a jersey) and the one I got is fake, was SO peeved about it.

E-Mailed the guy, agreed to send me a refund less my shipping and handling to send back to him.

Anyway he sent me my money in with PayPal, and I have withdrawn all my money and put it back into my account.

Just wondering because after reading this thread I'm not sure how I feel about dealing with PayPal anymore specifically in regard to this user.

With there being no money being leftover in that account. If I close my PayPal account and a problem arises in the future, either with this guy or something else can they somehow take money from my bank account if I've closed my PayPal account or?
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