12-02-2020, 12:49 AM
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#1
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First Line Centre
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: Sherwood Park, AB
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Writing a children's book
Wanted to reach out to CP and see if anyone has written a children's book before. I have an idea and have plenty of time these days, does anyone have any tips?
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12-02-2020, 12:59 AM
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#2
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Franchise Player
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: east van
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Quote:
Originally Posted by indes
Wanted to reach out to CP and see if anyone has written a children's book before. I have an idea and have plenty of time these days, does anyone have any tips?
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go light on the swearing and graphic sexual content
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12-02-2020, 06:49 AM
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#4
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Ben
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: God's Country (aka Cape Breton Island)
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What age are you looking to target?
Under 4 I'd keep the lines short, words small, and a consistent rhyming theme.
A 4-5 word title with a rhyme is a great idea for that age. (Something like "A Box Full of Socks", my son loves "Mo in the Snow"). Even if it doesn't rhyme, short is best (he loves when my wife reads him "Kiss it Better").
Words that a toddler can say are also a good idea, as he'll repeat short rhyming sentences when I read them to him.
If you're thinking of an age group of say 10-12 year olds? I dunno, small words, easy plot, something about a disenfranchised hero, and overcoming all the odds to save humanity.
__________________
"Calgary Flames is the best team in all the land" - My Brainwashed Son
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12-02-2020, 07:11 AM
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#6
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Franchise Player
Join Date: Dec 2016
Location: Alberta
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Quote:
Originally Posted by indes
Wanted to reach out to CP and see if anyone has written a children's book before. I have an idea and have plenty of time these days, does anyone have any tips?
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focus on the illustrations
My daughter and I have seen and read many a kids book where it dies by the creepy or godawful drawing.
nothing will ruin your good idea faster than something unappealing to look at.
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12-02-2020, 07:19 AM
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#7
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First Line Centre
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Writing a children's book
We just wrote a children’s book this year. Worked with a publisher. Since we have no artistic talent we hired an artist and had the choice to pay a fixed fee and keep all the royalties, or pay a portion from each sale. We paid a fixed fee through our publisher. If you’re self publishing there’s a Facebook group with super desperate artists that are working for cheap (like less than minimum wage cheap when you factor in how long it probably takes). (Edit: not meant to imply to do this, as mentioned below it’s a poor practice and we used a recommended artist at their rates. Also a caution lots have shown stories of people finding the cheapest artist only to discover plagiarized work) We also had to order a set amount of books at a fixed fee, to get our ISBN.
All in all we probably were into it for about $1000.
We’ve used this first book as a way to understand the process. Have another book in mind we’d like to complete, but still figuring out some more stuff.
The route we chose is very difficult to make any money in Canada. Our book sells for $11.99 in the US, which is about the most you can realistically charge. To do the equivalent in CAD the price point becomes too high. We were able to get Amazon to force the cad price lower than equivalent, but that eats into the very tight margin. Still have not conquered indigo, they seem to have a different listing system than the standard one the US publisher uses. (Our book is all over the US outlets, Walmart.com; Barnes and noble, Amazon, etc.)
Our book is a simple song we made up with the kids, which we really wanted to produce as a board book. But you’ll find out that you can’t print board books unless you order massive quantities, and then you can print in China.
We might break even one day. I’d like to do the process again now that we’ve done it once. The key to doing this without losing money is to be able to sell the batch of books you order direct as an author. With the right price point you could cover your costs from those sales, and anything else would be net positive. We never got our books due to covid cancelling a trip of ours to the US and they are sitting at a friends house. Originally we were going to go to some community type trade shows with the kids to teach them some business skills; and have fun together. Again covid or
Last edited by Ace; 12-02-2020 at 09:11 AM.
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12-02-2020, 08:32 AM
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#8
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Participant
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Depends what you want from it.
If you really believe in your idea, work with an illustrator and develop a manuscript, workshop the manuscript, edit the manuscript, and then start shopping it around to publishers who are open to unsolicited work and children’s books.
If you just want to say “I wrote a book” or it’s some vanity project for yourself, you can self-publish, I guess.
Writing is an art, and a book is a product. Writer’s who pay to publish are suckers, honestly. You should be the one getting paid (which will be a very small amount, for your first unsolicited manuscript). The only money you should be spending is on an editor, maybe.
The world is stuffed full of delusional self published authors and their vanity projects. Don’t be another one, just take it seriously and do it the right way.
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12-02-2020, 08:37 AM
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#9
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Franchise Player
Join Date: Dec 2016
Location: Alberta
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PepsiFree
Depends what you want from it.
If you really believe in your idea, work with an illustrator and develop a manuscript, workshop the manuscript, edit the manuscript, and then start shopping it around to publishers who are open to unsolicited work and children’s books.
If you just want to say “I wrote a book” or it’s some vanity project for yourself, you can self-publish, I guess.
Writing is an art, and a book is a product. Writer’s who pay to publish are suckers, honestly. You should be the one getting paid (which will be a very small amount, for your first unsolicited manuscript). The only money you should be spending is on an editor, maybe.
The world is stuffed full of delusional self published authors and their vanity projects. Don’t be another one, just take it seriously and do it the right way.
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Oh yeah. I remember a person I used to know that self published a book of poetry, and would gift autographed copies to show you were one of her dear friends.
I think I managed to get through 2 of her crappy poems.
Every chance she got she'd work into a conversation about being a published author. had it on her resume, too.
you want to make some money writing, get into romance novels.
I have a friend who writes them on the side and said it's an awesome second income.
after the first one, it's probably pretty easy. the publisher gives you the plot and you just flesh out the template.
biggest thing would probably be making a list of all the naughty sounds adjectives and phrases.
velvety softness, rigid, turgid, arrowlike Oh myyyyy.
Last edited by GordonBlue; 12-02-2020 at 08:42 AM.
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12-02-2020, 09:00 AM
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#10
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ALL ABOARD!
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ace
We just wrote a children’s book this year. Worked with a publisher. Since we have no artistic talent we hired an artist and had the choice to pay a fixed fee and keep all the royalties, or pay a portion from each sale. We paid a fixed fee through our publisher. If you’re self publishing there’s a Facebook group with super desperate artists that are working for cheap (like less than minimum wage cheap when you factor in how long it probably takes). We also had to order a set amount of books at a fixed fee, to get our ISBN.
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Don't exploit desperate artists. Pay them what they're worth. Building a relationship with a good artist and succeeding together will make for a better product in the end.
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12-02-2020, 09:09 AM
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#11
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First Line Centre
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KTrain
Don't exploit desperate artists. Pay them what they're worth. Building a relationship with a good artist and succeeding together will make for a better product in the end.
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I completely agree with this, which is why we didn’t go down this path. Just sharing what I’ve discovered. The artists themselves get pretty frustrated when they see this as it is essentially sewering their rates.
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12-02-2020, 09:36 AM
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#12
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First Line Centre
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Bear with me here as I have trouble writing now (cruel irony)
Before illustration, really focus on the writing stage and don't be afraid to let an editor break down your work.
Ideally you'd want to find a developmental editor familiar in creative children's storytelling or speculative fiction to go over your manuscript. Traversing the worlds of speculative fiction is entirely different than copyediting a news piece or performing heavy line editing or a substantive edit on web copy or academic work.
There's a real art to editing a piece of creative storytelling, but the fundamentals and technical skill have to be there. There is a lot of bleed over, and I'm certain there are editors out there who can switch gear. I suppose medicine is a good analogy: an orthopaedic surgeon could probably take a peek at your sinuses, but wouldn't an ENT be better?
If you go the self pub route, I'd say this is a must. But going that route is going to present you with a number of challenges:
The support or backing from a publisher is crucial to your book's success. Not just in terms of editing, illustrating, and publishing--all of which you can set up on your own--but marketing and distribution. It's difficult to get self-published work into national book stores. There's a rightly deserved snobbery surrounding self pub.
Amazon's changed the game, mind, but even if you do find your way onto Amazon or into Chapters, it's even more difficult to get any sort of media promotion with a self-pub piece. Independent book stores would be your target.
Finally, when you're ready to approach publishers (illustrated or not), you're going to need thick skin. Be prepared for a pile of rejections letters - and don't take them personally.
edit: Any specific Q's, PM me
Last edited by Sr. Mints; 12-02-2020 at 09:40 AM.
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12-02-2020, 09:52 AM
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#13
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Franchise Player
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: not lurking
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Local author/illustrator Carolyn Fisher occasionally does courses in children's book writing and illustration. She's an awesome person and a talented, award-winning children's book author and illustrator who knows the industry really well.
http://www.carolynfisher.com/take-a-class
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12-02-2020, 10:04 AM
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#14
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Participant
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Even though I also focused on the publishing process, thinking about it again after reading the OP, publishing should be the last thing on your mind.
Just focus first on the writing. Figure out your story, map it out if it helps, figure out the age range of your audience, and start writing. It's important that you've actually read a lot of books in that genre for that age, so you understand what works and what doesn't.
Are you a writer? If so, a children's story takes some adjustment. Depending on what you write, you need to be able to condense your ideas and ensure your language and flow are fitting to whatever audience you're after.
If you're not a writer, just start writing first, worry about a children's book somewhere down the line. There is the perception that because they're kids books, anyone could write them. And that's true if you self-publish, but otherwise it still takes a good understanding of writing and stories in general before you even start to approach a children's story.
Workshop your writing, show it to people who are not friends or family and who understand what good writing is, be open to people tearing it apart and listen carefully. If there are areas people like, focus in on understanding why, same goes for areas people don't like. Don't just feel good or bad about it and forget to learn from it.
Again, it depends what you want from it. But in general, if it's for some purpose outside of vanity or a gift to your kids, do it the right way and take it seriously. If it's worth doing, and your writing is worth something, you'll be published eventually. It could all come together in a matter of a year if you're an experienced writer or you have some innate talent and understanding of writing, or it could take many.
But if it is just for vanity or for your kids or whatever, just do whatever you want. Draw the pictures yourself for all anyone cares. You're paying for it, so who really cares, just don't expect it to do anything real for you.
Quote:
Originally Posted by GordonBlue
Oh yeah. I remember a person I used to know that self published a book of poetry, and would gift autographed copies to show you were one of her dear friends.
I think I managed to get through 2 of her crappy poems.
Every chance she got she'd work into a conversation about being a published author. had it on her resume, too.
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Self-published authors are some of the most unintentionally sad people I've ever known. The writing is almost always terrible, they become more marketers and grifters than writers, and they almost always seem more concerned about the existence of the book than whether it's any good. And of course, they're always first to tell you they're a published author, as though their version of that actually means anything.
The best comparison I can think of are those modelling/acting agencies where you have to pay all of the costs for headshots, screen tests, etc, and maybe you get a background part in some commercial (which anyone without an "agent" could get) and you call yourself an actor. It's people who want to be something so much that they'll pay just to be able to call themselves that, when the actual joy of it comes from earning it (and... you know... getting paid instead of being the one paying). It's embarrassing.
Not all traditionally published books are good, but almost all self-published books are some level of bad. There's reason why. Don't be bad.
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12-02-2020, 10:24 AM
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#15
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Unfrozen Caveman Lawyer
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: Winebar Kensington
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12-02-2020, 11:15 AM
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#16
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First Line Centre
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PepsiFree
Self-published authors are some of the most unintentionally sad people I've ever known. The writing is almost always terrible, they become more marketers and grifters than writers, and they almost always seem more concerned about the existence of the book than whether it's any good. And of course, they're always first to tell you they're a published author, as though their version of that actually means anything.
The best comparison I can think of are those modelling/acting agencies where you have to pay all of the costs for headshots, screen tests, etc, and maybe you get a background part in some commercial (which anyone without an "agent" could get) and you call yourself an actor. It's people who want to be something so much that they'll pay just to be able to call themselves that, when the actual joy of it comes from earning it (and... you know... getting paid instead of being the one paying). It's embarrassing.
Not all traditionally published books are good, but almost all self-published books are some level of bad. There's reason why. Don't be bad.
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I think you are being a little harsh. If you have ever written a book, you would probably realize that it is often harder to convince a publisher to publish your work than it is to get up the courage to write the book in the first place.
There are numerous well written and well received self published books by authors that are a long way from being sad e.g. the Wealthy Barber.
Also I think with time and the advent of modern technology it is becoming easier and more feasible to publish and promote you own work.
I think one should respect and commend those who show the courage and commitment to make public what they deem to be adding to the overall public good.
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12-02-2020, 11:19 AM
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#17
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Franchise Player
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: east van
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my friend has a children's book complete with illustrations and songs, he did it with a musician friend, they self publish it and then flog them at children's festivals, they read/sing/act out the stories more for love than money but they break even
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12-02-2020, 11:26 AM
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#18
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Franchise Player
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I know a good local artist if you’re looking. He’s inexpensive and does regular work for Reader’s Digest plus smaller publications.
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12-02-2020, 11:30 AM
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#19
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Franchise Player
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Quote:
Originally Posted by afc wimbledon
my friend has a children's book complete with illustrations and songs, he did it with a musician friend, they self publish it and then flog them at children's festivals, they read/sing/act out the stories more for love than money but they break even
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Sounds lucrative.
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