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Old 03-23-2019, 10:27 AM   #101
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What the . . . .



I just had a flashback to the Cartman joins NAMBLA episode and the ending speech


I'm going to NSFW this



From the script


NSFW!
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Old 03-23-2019, 10:56 AM   #102
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Just finished both parts, I have nothing but respect for Wade Robson and James Safechuck for having the courage to go on camera and tell their story. I can't imagine how difficult that must be, especially after the torment and anguish they've experienced. As naive as the mothers were and how they failed to protect them, you have to give them credit for owning up and facing the camera. Not many can admit when they've screwed up let alone screwed up so bad to allow your child to be sexually abused for years.

I wish that piece of garbage Michael Jackson was still alive to pay for what he did. He truly is a disgusting person and I hope his memory is forever tarnished and dragged through the mud as it deserves to be. F him and every person who blindly defends him for some insane reason.
No you really don't have to give them credit.
These parents are implicit in anything that Jackson did. It takes a special low life of a person to parent like that, and they should have had better functioning, adult brains than Jackson.
I really don't understand how anyone can fully condemn Jackson, yet forgive the parents.
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Old 03-23-2019, 11:27 AM   #103
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No you really don't have to give them credit.
These parents are implicit in anything that Jackson did. It takes a special low life of a person to parent like that, and they should have had better functioning, adult brains than Jackson.
I really don't understand how anyone can fully condemn Jackson, yet forgive the parents.
Agreed. They pretty much pimped their kids to a pedophile.
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Old 03-23-2019, 11:32 AM   #104
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No you really don't have to give them credit.
These parents are implicit in anything that Jackson did. It takes a special low life of a person to parent like that, and they should have had better functioning, adult brains than Jackson.
I really don't understand how anyone can fully condemn Jackson, yet forgive the parents.
Did you watch the documentary and walk away thinking that?

He seduced not only the kids but that families as well.

2 of the dads have also killed themselves, and the people left behind like the mothers and fathers are all going through a huge struggle.

Michael convinced most of the world he was just this innocent guy who was childlike and that's why he spent time with their kids.

So easy to judge in retrospect.
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Old 03-23-2019, 12:04 PM   #105
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I can't even fathom how anyone could let their child sleep over unattended at a weird grown man's house, and in his bed no less.

Sorry, but there is no way the parents could be that dumb. They had to have known that at the very least, they were taking an unreasonable risk. No doubt they were seduced by his celebrity, but the struggle they are feeling is probably more to do with a guilty conscience.
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Old 03-23-2019, 12:16 PM   #106
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Again though, did you watch the doc and the interview afterward, they go into excruciating detail on how this all happened.
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Old 03-23-2019, 02:59 PM   #107
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Again though, did you watch the doc and the interview afterward, they go into excruciating detail on how this all happened.
I think it's hard to comprehend because we can't see the seduction and grooming of the children and their families in real time. This was done over months and years, and it was very thorough and calculated. When we watch a 2 part documentary where a parent is adamantly stating they wouldn't let their child sleep with Jackson, then 20 minutes later they are fully into the abuse it's a skewed perspective.

As for Streisand, how hard is it to just shut-up about the subject completely? Jeeze, control your ego.
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Old 03-23-2019, 03:28 PM   #108
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Did you watch the documentary and walk away thinking that?

He seduced not only the kids but that families as well.

2 of the dads have also killed themselves, and the people left behind like the mothers and fathers are all going through a huge struggle.

Michael convinced most of the world he was just this innocent guy who was childlike and that's why he spent time with their kids.

So easy to judge in retrospect.
I haven't watched it.
I don't think I need to to judge the obvious parental failure that occurred here.
It's too simple to say they were seduced by Michael; that gives them victim status they don't deserve.

That's no different than all of Michael's defenders giving him victim status due to how he was raised and what his father put him through.

Either they're both awarded the excuse card, or neither.
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Old 03-23-2019, 04:46 PM   #109
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The parents have nothing in common with Jackson and it’s asinine to suggest otherwise.
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Old 03-23-2019, 04:48 PM   #110
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As for Streisand, how hard is it to just shut-up about the subject completely? Jeeze, control your ego.
And why is it being reported? The media needs to take some blame here. I don’t think it’s the time to be saying “but look, this celebrity says it’s okay! So it’s okay!”
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Old 03-23-2019, 05:14 PM   #111
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I'm not defending the parents. But the grooming of the victims of pedophiles usually includes grooming the parents and making them trust him or her.


Its tough to apply the blanket statement to all the parents. I mean you look at how successful Graham James was at cultivating trust with the parents of his victims, there are other cases, uncles, teachers, baby sitters, mentors, organizational volunteers.



They all seems to have things in common like building trust with the parents, and taking advantage of that trust.


Pedophiles aren't always creepy old guys in trench coats snatching children off the street and dragging them into their candy van.


There are just as many cases of hyper charismatic people that hide their monster well inside.
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Old 03-23-2019, 05:21 PM   #112
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I haven't watched it.
I don't think I need to to judge the obvious parental failure that occurred here.
It's too simple to say they were seduced by Michael; that gives them victim status they don't deserve.

That's no different than all of Michael's defenders giving him victim status due to how he was raised and what his father put him through.

Either they're both awarded the excuse card, or neither.
You would love Abducted in Plain Sight on Netflix...
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Old 03-24-2019, 09:53 AM   #113
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You would love Abducted in Plain Sight on Netflix...
You want to talk about dumb parents....those guys would headline the 'Dumbest Parents Ever: Hall of Fame.'

As the star attractions.
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Old 03-24-2019, 03:27 PM   #114
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Babe has now posted some kind of apology on twitter
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Old 03-24-2019, 03:31 PM   #115
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I haven't watched it.
I don't think I need to to judge the obvious parental failure that occurred here.
It's too simple to say they were seduced by Michael; that gives them victim status they don't deserve.

That's no different than all of Michael's defenders giving him victim status due to how he was raised and what his father put him through.

Either they're both awarded the excuse card, or neither.
While I dont necessarily disagree you're applying 2019 knowledge into circumstances happening in the late 80s and early 90s and then throwing in some hindsight.

While you're not wrong, many, many red flags were there for the seeing and the parents were far from perfect, I'd wager that only Robson's mother was willfully ignorant for her own benefit and it destroyed her entire family.
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Old 03-25-2019, 03:36 PM   #116
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I watched it. Seemed kind of phony to me. Not saying they're lying but when they were describing the acts it felt scripted. I suspect something untoward was going on with MJ, but these two aren't convincing IMO.
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Old 03-25-2019, 04:47 PM   #117
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I'm not defending the parents. But the grooming of the victims of pedophiles usually includes grooming the parents and making them trust him or her.


Its tough to apply the blanket statement to all the parents. I mean you look at how successful Graham James was at cultivating trust with the parents of his victims, there are other cases, uncles, teachers, baby sitters, mentors, organizational volunteers.

They all seems to have things in common like building trust with the parents, and taking advantage of that trust.

Pedophiles aren't always creepy old guys in trench coats snatching children off the street and dragging them into their candy van.

There are just as many cases of hyper charismatic people that hide their monster well inside.
Did he hide it well, though? Listen to Norm from the 90s. Like, I'm not sure MJ hid it that well. Listen to the knowing laughs in the audience. These jokes weren't flying over their head - the entire world sort of kind of knew that he liked little boys a little too much.
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Old 03-25-2019, 11:50 PM   #118
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I dont know. I question the credibility of these two when I read things like this on Forbes
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Robson, in particular, has come under scrutiny. In 2011, he approached the Michael Jackson estate wanting to direct the new Michael Jackson/Cirque du Soleil production,#ONE. The estate hired someone else for the job. A year later, he shopped a book about claims of sexual abuse by Jackson, but no publisher picked it up. In 2013, he filed a $1.5 billion dollar civil lawsuit against the Jackson estate, along with Safechuck. The lawsuit was dismissed by a probate court in 2017. Then, this year’s Sundance Film Festival premiered#Leaving Neverland.
Even the supposed Dic drawings the source is journalists saying they matched, not actual people involved in law enforcement so that's questionable if that's true and it was not admissible to court. Buying a ring for Sheryl Crow while dragging a kid around. Is that weird ? I've done errands while babysitting.

If Macaulay Culkin or Corey Feldman confirmed it that would seal it for me but then maybe he just wasn't attracted to those two? But then why didnt they see anything?it just seems like revenge for the Jackson estate turning down their business aspirations. They both acquitted him in court when under oath but now that he's dead and cant defend himself this comes out. I bet now their book will be picked up by a publisher, it just feels a bit too convenient. maybe I'm taking a devils advocate approach but they release a documentary that features none of the other famous people that did NOT get abused, do not feature his family or his daughter that was raised in the house from 1999 and on..... how come she didnt see anything ? if hes a predator he wouldn't just quit cold turkey. This documentary is reported completely one sided to get publicity so they can re-submit the book back to publishers again... and profit. hes not alive to dispute it.. I was sexually attacked by an older co worker when I was a teen but luckily got away and the last thing I wanted to do was ever see that person again but Robson wanted to direct MJs musical???

I'm on the fence about him but these two don't strike me as a credible source.

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Old 03-25-2019, 11:56 PM   #119
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Did you watch the documentary?
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Old 03-27-2019, 12:22 AM   #120
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Did you watch the documentary?
Yes and I dont doubt he surrounded himself with children and lived vicariously through them to recoup the childhood he never had but I'm not getting the feeling conclusively he treated them any more than like his own children which MJ then had and raised at the ranch. None of his children came forward with any allegations or stories of misbehavior in the household while they grew up at the ranch either.

The insinuation was MJ replaced the two of them with Barnes and Culkin and both are on record saying he never did anything sexual to them either. These two in the doc also denied any issues until their careers hit the skids.....I feel like MJ just wanted to have kids of his own and so eventually thats what he did... Coincidentally these two have had their careers hit the toilet and as mentioned they wanted to direct MJ's Cirque show as adults in 2011 and were denied, why run back to MJ years later? In 2012, Robson had a nervous breakdown, triggered, he said, by an obsessive quest for success. His career, in his own words, began to “crumble.” That same year, with Robson’s career, finances, and marriage in peril, he began shopping a book that claimed he was sexually abused by Michael Jackson. No publisher picked it up.Then moved on to this. It just seems a little strange like they hit the skids and started looking for ways tomake money after being denied access to MJs inner circle/lucrative work not only as children but as adults. Why didnt they interview Barnes or Culkin or Feldman? Why is Barnes defending MJ and sueing these two for portraying him as being sexually assaulted by MJ after replacing them as MJs new "fav." What about Sky Ferreiria? When Pressed further on the dynamics of her relationship with Jackson when she was a child, Ferreira disclosed that she visited Jackson’s houses, including his Neverland Ranch, “a lot” – but she didn’t witness any of the alleged abuse which was recently detailed in the controversial documentary Leaving Neverland “It wasn’t just because I was a girl,” she said. “I was around a lot of kids.”
"Aaron Carter appeared during their live show on Monday to speak out about Leaving Neverland and his own experience with Michael Jackson.
Aaron was very upset with allegations from the documentary and revealed that he had an amazing time with Jackson.Carter says that he spent a lot of time with Micheal Jackson and that nothing inappropriate ever happened, even revealing that like so many other young boys, he had spent nights in Jackson’s bedroom."

Why is it only the financially unstable ones that seem to have been assaulted? No testimony from his ex wives or gfs or his 3 kids,there were hundreds of kids at the ranch, but he some how only got these two alone consistently and only did things to them. Why did the FBI investigations and two unannounced raids on Neverland not make it in the documentary? Is it because they came up with no evidence outside of the fact he had a porn collection and the kids might have got into it? I just would have liked a balanced approach so I could make an educated decision. Im still on the fence. It wasnt very well done in my opinion and clearly had an agenda.

You want a good documentary (not MJ related) watch Wild Country. Both sides are equally portrayed so you can actually make an educated decision on the facts.represented.

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