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Old 03-12-2019, 11:01 PM   #101
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You want to see an immediate cratering of the British economy to levels of 1930's poverty go through with it
Ya sure 1930’s poverty. Bit alarmist wouldn’t you say?
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Old 03-12-2019, 11:04 PM   #102
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My simplistic understanding of Brexit is the British want control over their borders but also want to leave their only border with the EU open. Good luck with that!

At this stage it seems like the only options are a no deal with the backstop that will damage the economy and lead to the breakup of the UK, or a delay with a 2nd referendum that will end up causing the UK to become even more divided and unstable.
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Old 03-12-2019, 11:19 PM   #103
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If you want to see chaos, back out of a referendum decided by the people.
That's a simplistic stance. The referendum happened before the voters knew what an exit looked like. Now they know the facts they should have a say. I don't see how asking again with more facts is ignoring the will if the people. It is mearly confirming it.
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Old 03-13-2019, 02:25 AM   #104
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There will be some short term pains for hopefully long term gains. The british people have gone through much worse throughout their history and have perservered, example if you need - world war 2.

It won’t be the end of britain if there’s no deal. They’ll be fine.
I don't think you have any conception of the staggering level of incompetence of the British ruling class and the countries solid century of decline and loss, if Brexit nails the city then that's the last vestige of Britain's glory gone.

A hard Brexit cancels every trade deal the UK has with every country in the world over night, the economy will be devested
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Old 03-13-2019, 03:31 AM   #105
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There will be some short term pains for hopefully long term gains. The british people have gone through much worse throughout their history and have perservered, example if you need - world war 2.



It won’t be the end of britain if there’s no deal. They’ll be fine.


Someone mentioned the war!

That’s my bingo card full.
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Old 03-13-2019, 03:41 AM   #106
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I dont know what this means.

Anyone?
Tottenham are the Edmonton Oilers of English premier soccer and they have been building a new stadium that has also dragged on a long time.

The best way to think of it is Tottenham = No Good
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Old 03-13-2019, 07:26 AM   #107
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Originally Posted by afc wimbledon View Post
I don't think you have any conception of the staggering level of incompetence of the British ruling class and the countries solid century of decline and loss, if Brexit nails the city then that's the last vestige of Britain's glory gone.

A hard Brexit cancels every trade deal the UK has with every country in the world over night, the economy will be devested
Britain, solid century of decline? Since they’ve been in the EU for the last 47 years, you’re right, it’s probably time to try something different.

If every trade deal is cancelled and tarrifs imposed, that will leave a lot of opportunity for new business growth in the country. All the restraints of negotiating better deals with individual countries will be lifted. Britain would fall under WTO trade rules anyway.

As an aside, Canada, Australia, China, U.S. are all not in the european union and are doing arguably better than the eu.
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Old 03-13-2019, 07:50 AM   #108
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Britain, solid century of decline? Since they’ve been in the EU for the last 47 years, you’re right, it’s probably time to try something different.

If every trade deal is cancelled and tarrifs imposed, that will leave a lot of opportunity for new business growth in the country. All the restraints of negotiating better deals with individual countries will be lifted. Britain would fall under WTO trade rules anyway.

As an aside, Canada, Australia, China, U.S. are all not in the european union and are doing arguably better than the eu.
And don't forget the 350M pounds per week to the NHS!

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Old 03-13-2019, 08:24 AM   #109
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Britain, solid century of decline? Since they’ve been in the EU for the last 47 years, you’re right, it’s probably time to try something different.

If every trade deal is cancelled and tarrifs imposed, that will leave a lot of opportunity for new business growth in the country. All the restraints of negotiating better deals with individual countries will be lifted. Britain would fall under WTO trade rules anyway.

As an aside, Canada, Australia, China, U.S. are all not in the european union and are doing arguably better than the eu.
Seriously? The EU wasn't even created until 1993. Maybe get your facts straight before pulling stuff out of your rear.

The UK economy is more than 45% tied to the EU in exports. What happens when opposing countries impose tariffs? They are a bigger trading block and can negotiate as one and there will get better terms based on what they can bring to the table. Odds of getting a better deal are extremely unlikely and anyone that sells you on whether they can are the same ones that said the Brexit process with be orderly... more Russian-backed ultra right-wing "nationalist" talking points that really have not basis in facts or reality.
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Old 03-13-2019, 08:37 AM   #110
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Britain, solid century of decline? Since they’ve been in the EU for the last 47 years, you’re right, it’s probably time to try something different.



If every trade deal is cancelled and tarrifs imposed, that will leave a lot of opportunity for new business growth in the country. All the restraints of negotiating better deals with individual countries will be lifted. Britain would fall under WTO trade rules anyway.



As an aside, Canada, Australia, China, U.S. are all not in the european union and are doing arguably better than the eu.


Britain by virtue of having a market around a fifth of the size is unlikely to be able to negotiate better trade deals than already negotiated on their behalf by the EU.

Additionally the only people in the UK with experience of negotiating trade deals, have not done so since prior to 1973.

So, a smaller market with a significant capability gap and a need to negotiate deals with every market in the world, each that will have their own competing priorities means it does not look good at all for the UK.
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Old 03-13-2019, 08:53 AM   #111
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Originally Posted by stampsx2 View Post
Britain, solid century of decline? Since they’ve been in the EU for the last 47 years, you’re right, it’s probably time to try something different.

If every trade deal is cancelled and tarrifs imposed, that will leave a lot of opportunity for new business growth in the country. All the restraints of negotiating better deals with individual countries will be lifted. Britain would fall under WTO trade rules anyway.

As an aside, Canada, Australia, China, U.S. are all not in the european union and are doing arguably better than the eu.

It's people like you spouting false facts and painting trade deals as "easy" that got the UK into this mess in the first place. Every expert who actually knows anything about economics and trade deals has repeatedly said the UK leaving the EU will be bad, so why should anyone believe you?
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Old 03-13-2019, 09:00 AM   #112
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I don't think you have any conception of the staggering level of incompetence of the British ruling class and the countries solid century of decline and loss, if Brexit nails the city then that's the last vestige of Britain's glory gone.
The UK has the fifth largest economy in the world, and ranks 8th in global competitiveness.

Spoiler!


It isn't going to become a basket case because of Brexit.
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Old 03-13-2019, 09:05 AM   #113
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That's a simplistic stance. The referendum happened before the voters knew what an exit looked like. Now they know the facts they should have a say. I don't see how asking again with more facts is ignoring the will if the people. It is mearly confirming it.

Similar to how children don't really understand what "that's hot" means until they burn themselves, the Brexit supporters won't understand what their stupid decision means until they see the conclusion of this. If the vote is reversed, there will still be that sentiment of "it would have been great to be free of the EU, but now we'll never know".



All of this aside, seeing how this plays out will be good fodder for whenever you have those threats of separation from Canada from Alberta.
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Old 03-13-2019, 10:15 AM   #114
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Originally Posted by CliffFletcher View Post
The UK has the fifth largest economy in the world, and ranks 8th in global competitiveness.

Spoiler!


It isn't going to become a basket case because of Brexit.
No, the UK has been a basket case since 1918, at various times the descent has been breathtaking, 1925 and the Gold Standard (an act of hubris and mistaken belief in the UK's place in the world that cost the country 30% of its GDP and set up the rest of the 20th centuries decline) , 1945 to 1975 and the wholesale loss of major manufacturing lock step with the loss of empire, membership in the EU has slowed the decline, not stopped but slowed. What little is made in the UK is made by foreign companies using the UK as an offshore base for their EU operations, the UK has become over the last 40 years a high tech Bangladesh, making things for offshore companies.

Auto manufacturing, the UK's largest industry, its single largest export both within and without of the EU, its single largest non government employer, and yet not a single British company making cars at scale, every car company in the UK beyond the few exotics is Japanese French German or Indian, every company has stated they cannot survive in a non EU UK.

In that sense you are right, the UK isn't going to become a basket case because of Brexit, it has been a basket case for many many decades before the EU was formed.
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Old 03-13-2019, 10:30 AM   #115
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Auto manufacturing, the UK's largest industry, its single largest export both within and without of the EU, its single largest non government employer, and yet not a single British company making cars at scale, every car company in the UK beyond the few exotics is Japanese French German or Indian, every company has stated they cannot survive in a non EU UK.
Do you think being in the EU helps or hinders the industry in that respect? Honest question.

There are legitimate negative things being in the EU, for both large economy nations and smaller ones. And there are of course positives, which may in many cases out weigh the negatives.
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Old 03-13-2019, 10:38 AM   #116
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afc wimbledon: Decline of primary (extraction) and secondary (manufacturing) economic sectors, offset by tertiary (services) and quaternary (R&D) is an indicator of a developed economy. You see the UK as in decline because it acts like (and is) a first-world country.
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Old 03-13-2019, 10:56 AM   #117
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Do you think being in the EU helps or hinders the industry in that respect? Honest question.

There are legitimate negative things being in the EU, for both large economy nations and smaller ones. And there are of course positives, which may in many cases out weigh the negatives.
EU membership is the only reason cars are made in the UK, cars made in the UK contain around 60% parts sourced from the EU mainland and 40% of all cars made in the UK are exported to the EU, only 20% stay in the UK, the whole UK car industry relies on tariff and even more essentially customs free access, cars made in the UK in effect travel backwards and forwards from the UK to the EU 6 times in their production process, the UK is in effect just a finishing facility for offshore product.

Even the exotics will be effected, Aston Martin plans on having their transmissions flown from Germany to their plant in order to sidestep the massive delays at the border, of course this will cost a fortune but they can just throw that on to the customer, you cant do that for a Ford Focus.
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Old 03-13-2019, 11:02 AM   #118
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afc wimbledon: Decline of primary (extraction) and secondary (manufacturing) economic sectors, offset by tertiary (services) and quaternary (R&D) is an indicator of a developed economy. You see the UK as in decline because it acts like (and is) a first-world country.
UK service trade is utterly predicated on EU membership though, that sector has grown up within the EU and is completely reliant on the ability to send staff back wards and forwards to the EU without any checks or balances, most of my mates work as much in Germany as they do in the UK, their companies are mostly joint UK EU, mostly Dutch for some reason, the whole point of Brexit is to make service trade more difficult through the closing off of freedom of movement.

Brexit is a desire to go backwards to an imaginary 1950's or 60's when things were still made in Britain by British companies who's wholly white British workforce still wore flat caps and drank mild and bitter.
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Old 03-13-2019, 11:12 AM   #119
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I remember when Britain used to export model trains, that's all moved to China. I believe the Land Rovers are no longer made in Solihull, production moved to India a few years ago. I owned two in the past, they required quite a bit of maintenance.
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Old 03-13-2019, 11:18 AM   #120
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Seriously? The EU wasn't even created until 1993. Maybe get your facts straight before pulling stuff out of your rear.

The UK economy is more than 45% tied to the EU in exports. What happens when opposing countries impose tariffs? They are a bigger trading block and can negotiate as one and there will get better terms based on what they can bring to the table. Odds of getting a better deal are extremely unlikely and anyone that sells you on whether they can are the same ones that said the Brexit process with be orderly... more Russian-backed ultra right-wing "nationalist" talking points that really have not basis in facts or reality.
Haha you need to do a bit of reading before you pull stuff out of your rear. It was called the european economic community that turned into the european union. Sorry i just assumed me could skip the obvious but obviously i have to explain every detail.
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