Is it time to call up Mathew Phillips?

[Bingo]

Originally Posted by TheScorpion

And the Flames have never bottomed out long enough to get even a single top-3 pick. That shows a lack of conviction.

Or a lack of complete suck in the competitive world.

[TheScorpion]

Maybe, but I think it's a very good thing to flat-out suck for a few years to get things set up for the future. The Flames have never wanted to do this, but the teams that have — either by choice or by circumstance — are typically the teams that have gone far.

I think that lack of conviction is the real "complete suck."

[Cali Panthers Fan]

Originally Posted by TheScorpion

Maybe, but I think it's a very good thing to flat-out suck for a few years to get things set up for the future. The Flames have never wanted to do this, but the teams that have — either by choice or by circumstance — are typically the teams that have gone far.

I think that lack of conviction is the real "complete suck."

I dunno. I think getting pick #4, #6, and #6 over 4 years is close enough to "embracing the suck". 3 picks right around the top 5 mark should be enough to build any franchise.

There's lots of reasons why the Flames aren't at the top of the standings right now, but sucking hard and drafting high enough aren't those reasons.

[Macho0978]

Originally Posted by TheScorpion

Phillips has been strong all season. His production has remained pretty consistent since the start. Those three were the line to start the year and then Gawdin replaced Ruzicka. Both Pelletier and Phillips have remained extremely effective regardless of their centre.

True but the difference in production is insignificant. Maybe the Flames chose Ruzicka because he is a center and of the 4th line players only Richardson is a center. Size and better defensively maybe contribute to why one got the call over the other too. End of day both probably have proven good to get a call but might as well continue with Ruzicka until he gets a true crack

IMO Lewis and Richardson are plugs but are veterans and winners and good mentors. Pitlick and Ritchie are just plugs. So Ritchie should sit and Ruzicka should play. If he struggles sure call up phillips or if a guy like dube gets hurt call up phillips. But for now I’m ok with just 1 getting a spot in the line up. Top 3 lines are good as is right now imo

[TheIronMaiden]

I've asked in the past and the answer was no. Has Phillips started to kill penalties?

[looooob]

Originally Posted by Cali Panthers Fan

I dunno. I think getting pick #4, #6, and #6 over 4 years is close enough to "embracing the suck". 3 picks right around the top 5 mark should be enough to build any franchise.

There's lots of reasons why the Flames aren't at the top of the standings right now, but sucking hard and drafting high enough aren't those reasons.

that's a tricky one. for sure 4/6/6 is a decent sweet spot and their haul in the end of the day was ok there- 3 NHLers for sure, but its a big difference at 1 or 2, especially at Center but all positions- the elites are in the those top few picks


getting those can be tricky those (especially with lottery). embracing the suck helps for sure


Arizona is giving 'er on this right now and is in the mix for 1OV



at times edmonton and buffalo have seemed to be (but that can be hard to know intentional versus incompetence) trying to suck- its worked, sort of- although neither team has ever really risen appropriately


look at Montreal this year? they were in the finals last year- did they really actively try and do what they are doing right now? I mean most of us could have seen they were way worse than their playoff results,


Tampa in 07-08 were just a few years removed from the playoffs and had a solid team still led by Lecavalier , St Louis, Richards, Boyle, Prospal and Torts as coach- did they intend to crater and nab Stamkos? kudos if so, but that's a nice way to do things

[SuperMatt18]

Originally Posted by TheScorpion

Maybe, but I think it's a very good thing to flat-out suck for a few years to get things set up for the future. The Flames have never wanted to do this, but the teams that have — either by choice or by circumstance — are typically the teams that have gone far.

I think that lack of conviction is the real "complete suck."

There is some luck involved in being bad enough to draft 1st overall too.

12-13 was a lockout, and then management convinced ownership to trade Iggy, Bouw, and rebuild. Flames were tied for the 5th worse record in the league and Colorado won the lottery to get Mackinnon.

Funny part is most of the four/five teams below them should have been worse than Calgary that year.

Florida was a playoff team the year prior. Tampa were 2 years removed from a trip to the conference finals. Nashville had been a good team most of the prior decade. Colorado had some young talent and should have been better than they were.

Flames tried to suck again in 13-14...Colorado, Columbus, and others just happened to suck more. Flames had the 4th worst record.

And honestly if we draft 2nd or 3rd in that draft I still think we take Bennett, they probably would have taken Ekblad at 1.

Then inexplicably that 14-15 team made the playoffs and won a round. I don't think it was intentional and nobody expected that team to be good that year. Edmonton who already had 3 1st OV picks and were building something special lucked their way to McDavid.

Most people had them in the McDavid/Eichel sweepstakes going into the season but Gaudreau, Monahan, Hudler, Gio, Brodie, Wideman (56 points!), Hiller, and even Bouma and Jones had great years. People forget but that team still even traded Glencross UFA with the team in a playoff spot.

They didn't want to really be a playoff team at that point. It's why I often say that while it was the most fun I've ever had as a Flames fan in the last decade, it was the worst thing to happen to that franchise. Expectations from ownership changed, the rebuild was over, and the team was expected to contend for the playoffs again.

Even then though we traded that pick for 16th OV for Hamilton, and that turned into Lindholm / Hanifin who were top 5 picks, so not the end of the world. Argument to be made though that we'd have been better off with Barzal and the two other 2nd rounders.

We sucked the following year again and got a guy who is probably a top 3 talent from that draft in Tkachuk...so kind of lucked out a little there. Drafted Fox who won a Norris but wouldn't sign.

Being bad doesn't guarantee you a top 3 pick. Even Arizona who put together maybe the worst roster I've ever seen intentionally put together this year is getting too close to galling out of a top 3 pick at times.

And in the end this roster had 5 top 6 picks on it at one time (Monahan, Lindholm, Bennett, Tkachuk, Hanifin), plus Gaudreau who would be a top 5 pick in a re-draft. Unless you are the Oilers or Sabres it tends to be hard to consistently get top 3 picks, and if Sam Bennett was PPG Center for us like he is in Florida I doubt we are talking about not tanking enough.

[GioforPM]

You do have to be lucky as well as tanky. Sabres have drafted top 10 the last 9 years, and 4 times in the last ten they’ve had 2 first rounders.

And then you have to still build your team. Look north.

[Macho0978]

Originally Posted by GioforPM

You do have to be lucky as well as tanky. Sabres have drafted top 10 the last 9 years, and 4 times in the last ten they’ve had 2 first rounders.

And then you have to still build your team. Look north.

And the Flames have never got lucky to get picked in the draft lottery and it’s been around since 1998. They missed the playoffs a ton in that time to never get picked

Washington finished 3rd last won lottery got AO. Could have been barker

Pittsburgh moved from 4 to 1 to take Fleury. Won complete lottery to get Crosby

Chicago moved from 5 to 1 to get Kane

3 examples of how to do it all got very lucky. Chicago got Kane with a teams that had been over 80 points and finished in that dreaded 5th overall range.

Atlanta got kovalchuk moving 3 to 1. Could have been svitov

Oilers moved up to get mcdavid

Stars moved way up to get Heskinen

Rangers to get lafreniere

Flames have had a lot of bad luck when it comes to the draft lottery and never been that team that just miss playoffs only to get pulled and get a top 3 pick. Things could have looked way worse in cities like Pittsburgh Washington and Chicago if it wasn’t for some luck

[powderjunkie]

6,6,4 could be enough, though realistic expectations should be:
1 great player
1 solid player
1 underwhelming player

We exceeded that and it was nowhere near enough...you have to make hay with a bunch of other picks, too. If we rewind from Monahan in 2013 (where we busted every other pick including 22 and 28):

21* (really 14 trade down)
13 104 = Gaudreau
64
23
25 114= Brodie
24 (Backlund)
26
26

It's relevant to go back at least that far as Backlund and Brodie were relevant parts of the rebuild. 3 impact players in the previous 8 drafts (1 being great, 2 being solid+)

Burke and Tre hit the gas with:
2 seemingly great players
2 solid+ players
1 wilcard

Yes of course there were some other young assets (and a few depth players drafted like Ferland/Bouma), but in the cap era you really need to maximize the full lifecyle of a draft pick. Dougie Hamilton's asset value expired last summer...meanwhile our remaining 2015 draft picks are all still on the front half of their life cycle having delivered bargain value:

Mangi = ~2 years ELC value and now 2 years bridge...could easily get another 5-8 years out of him at FMV
Andersson = 2 years ELC, now year 2 of 6 of RFA value
Kylington = 2 years of depth value and now 1 years of exceptional ELC value...lots of team control left

[FanIn80]

Do I love having Johnny? Yes!
Was I pissed when we cut Marty? Yes!
Do I think Phillips is the missing piece? Not really, no.

[Mindtravellee]

This is where the flames eventually suck after Wright and Bedard only to get pick one who turns into another Yakupov or breaks down cause of injury/concussion and retires

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by Mindtravellee

This is where the flames eventually suck after Wright and Bedard only to get pick one who turns into another Yakupov or breaks down cause of injury/concussion and retires

Where is this storyline coming from? The Flames haven’t misfired on a first rounder in 10 years, not counting the extra late ones in 2013.

[Jiri Hrdina]

Originally Posted by GioforPM

Where is this storyline coming from? The Flames haven’t misfired on a first rounder in 10 years, not counting the extra late ones in 2013.

He's saying the team won't be bad enough to get a high pick when there are franchise players available, and then will stink when there aren't.

Though frankly Wright isn't looking like he's on that top echelon. In fact this year's draft isn't shaping up as strongly as I thought it would be. Few of the top guys are really performing well. Probably some impact of a f'd up season last year though.

Next year's draft though. WHOOOO BOY. That's when you wanna SUCK! I think you have 3 franchise players at the top there.

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by Jiri Hrdina

He's saying the team won't be bad enough to get a high pick when there are franchise players available, and then will stink when there aren't.

Though frankly Wright isn't looking like he's on that top echelon. In fact this year's draft isn't shaping up as strongly as I thought it would be. Few of the top guys are really performing well. Probably some impact of a f'd up season last year though.

Next year's draft though. WHOOOO BOY. That's when you wanna SUCK! I think you have 3 franchise players at the top there.

I get it but that’s not the Flame narrative. It’s to never suck bad enough to get that top tier franchise level pick.

[powderjunkie]

Originally Posted by GioforPM

Where is this storyline coming from? The Flames haven’t misfired on a first rounder in 10 years, not counting the extra late ones in 2013.

Jury's out on everything since Valimaki (5 drafts, 4 1sts)

What you're really saying is they didn't miss on 4, 6, and 6...but Janko should fall into that time frame, and Baertschi just one year earlier...

[bigrangy]

The answer is still yes. Even in two consecutive games where the opponent has been AHL level, Ritchie and Lewis inspire no confidence that they can contribute to positive goal differentials.

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by powderjunkie

Jury's out on everything since Valimaki (5 drafts, 4 1sts)

What you're really saying is they didn't miss on 4, 6, and 6...but Janko should fall into that time frame, and Baertschi just one year earlier...

Yeah, what I meant was 10 years ago was the last misfire.

Valimaki - yeah the jury’s out, but he’s still only played less games than 6 D taken in that draft, two of whom are Makar and Heiskenan.

[TheScorpion]

Ruzicka showed tonight he's capable of playing up and down a lineup and making an impact. This is why you bring these guys in. They are safer, higher upside bets.

You can put a guy like Ruzicka out there for a shift in the top six and he can make things happen. Brett Ritchie and Brad Richardson can't do that.

[dino7c]

Originally Posted by bigrangy

The answer is still yes. Even in two consecutive games where the opponent has been AHL level, Ritchie and Lewis inspire no confidence that they can contribute to positive goal differentials.

a top NHL team and a mid pack team