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Old 09-16-2020, 05:23 PM   #2221
Cecil Terwilliger
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Go back to the UBI thread or read a book! For the majority of humans living conditions hav never been better.
Somehow I get the feeling his post wasn’t about penicillin, infant mortality rates or average lifespan.

Trotting out that argument every time someone mentions the chaotic state of the world is completely pointless.
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Old 09-16-2020, 05:34 PM   #2222
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Go back to the UBI thread or read a book! For the majority of humans living conditions hav never been better.
In my honest opinion... using horrible things from the past as an excuse to downplay (or even justify) horrible things happening in the present, is a rather ######y thing to do.
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Old 09-16-2020, 06:08 PM   #2223
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Originally Posted by Cecil Terwilliger View Post
Somehow I get the feeling his post wasn’t about penicillin, infant mortality rates or average lifespan.

Trotting out that argument every time someone mentions the chaotic state of the world is completely pointless.
But the world really isn’t chaotic compared to 99% of history

I guess compared to last year it is though .

And his post wasn’t that it’s chaotic either. Literally said “threatens our species”

Nothing in this thread remotely threatens our species. It’s mostly single people doing horrible things , which people have done forever (and much much worst )

The internet just has allowed the average person to be more exposed

Anyone believing that world is “doomed” because of this thread or the last few months or Trump is an idiot

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Old 09-16-2020, 06:12 PM   #2224
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Originally Posted by Mathgod View Post
In my honest opinion... using horrible things from the past as an excuse to downplay (or even justify) horrible things happening in the present, is a rather ######y thing to do.
Nope didn’t do that. Just said living conditions have never been better which is a fact not an opinion. 99% of the world is living in the best time of their lives. Maybe the white middle class American male is (comparatively) worst off then they have been in the past . That’s about it.

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Old 09-16-2020, 08:19 PM   #2225
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Nope didn’t do that. Just said living conditions have never been better which is a fact not an opinion. 99% of the world is living in the best time of their lives. Maybe the white middle class American male is (comparatively) worst off then they have been in the past . That’s about it.
"Didn't do that"? You're literally doing that right now. You might think whataboutisms justify the way things currently are, but they don't.

What I'm actually talking about are things like climate change, rampant pollution, endless wars, systemic racism, horrifying levels of wealth inequality, ever growing stockpiles of nuclear weapons, etc.
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Old 09-17-2020, 08:57 AM   #2226
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Someone kills a black bear, barely the minimum legal size, and brings it up into a Calgary highrise apartment for processing. Neighbors are upset, fish and wildlife say that they have the right permits to hunt, and the building didn't have 'large animal processing' in their bylaws.

I don't know what these people look like, but I kind of need a picture of these warlocks.

https://globalnews.ca/news/7335041/d...ary-apartment/
I used to live in this building and I'm certain this isn't the first time a body has been processed there...

At least they shouldn't have a hard time passing a new bylaw when only 15 people show up to the AGM.
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Old 09-17-2020, 09:13 AM   #2227
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Originally Posted by Harry Lime View Post
Someone kills a black bear, barely the minimum legal size, and brings it up into a Calgary highrise apartment for processing. Neighbors are upset, fish and wildlife say that they have the right permits to hunt, and the building didn't have 'large animal processing' in their bylaws.

I don't know what these people look like, but I kind of need a picture of these warlocks.

https://globalnews.ca/news/7335041/d...ary-apartment/
Where did you get your information that the neighbors were upset and that the bear was "barely the minimum size", because it sure wasn't in that article. F&W never commented on the size aside from saying it was a legal harvest and the only person from the apartment interviewed said they were taken aback and said nothing about "large animal processing", aside from saying residents aren't prohibited from processing any game in their apartments.
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Old 09-17-2020, 09:14 AM   #2228
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Originally Posted by Mathgod View Post
"Didn't do that"? You're literally doing that right now. You might think whataboutisms justify the way things currently are, but they don't.

What I'm actually talking about are things like climate change, rampant pollution, endless wars, systemic racism, horrifying levels of wealth inequality, ever growing stockpiles of nuclear weapons, etc.

Wait a minute, you think that these problems are unique or worse then they were


Acid Rain, holes in the ozone layer, air quality 0, soil and rain forest errosion, proxy wars between the Warsaw pact and NATO, Doomsday Clock, MAD, worse wealth inequality in NA for sure, worse record of equal rights with worse laws, massive terrorism in the Middle East, Today's stockpile of nuclear weapons is relatively small compared to stockpiles back then. Tanks in the Fulda Gap, Cuban Missile Crisis.


Anyone that thinks these things today are worse then they were at the turn of the century is fooling themselves.



We were all told that we were f'd environmentally and the world was ending man, that we were going to nuke each other over (And we got very close) a capacitor burning at the Norad Command Center or under that enormous hollow Rock East of Moscow. You think there's wealth equality now, and there is, but it was way worse in the days of the consumption driven 80's.



No generation has an exclusive story of pain or how bad it is, there's a dramatic level by the generation coming up, and the whole story of the generation before us F'd us.


Are things great right now? Nope, but you know what, I'd take today over 30 years ago when I was leaving my teens for adult hood.


The biggest difference now is the easy access to media sources that we didn't have growing up.


But there is something overly dramatic about this generation.
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Old 09-17-2020, 09:27 AM   #2229
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Sorry Cap’n but you’re just doing the same thing but on a smaller timeline.

The problems that previous generations faced aren’t relevant to the OP’s point.

It’s gatekeeping. It’s like saying someone knows nothing about depression because I know someone else who was way more depressed than that. Comparisons are pointless and it becomes a really sad pissing contest to see who had it worse.

Blaming it on the media, hysteria, wimpy kids etc is just a way people monopolize sympathy or frustration or whatever it is that motivates people to minimalize the problems of others to make their own issues seem worse.
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Old 09-17-2020, 09:32 AM   #2230
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I don't disagree, however the point is this.


Nobody, and no generation has ownership on the whole "Its so bad" Look what we have now.


I would argue that there has been a lot of movement on key issues from generation to generation in terms of improvement.


I'd rather be now then then.



Are there still significant problems, absolutely but there have been significant improvements.


But sitting there and saying unprecedented levels of pollution, or nuclear weapons or wealth inequality is just flat out incorrect to me.
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Old 09-17-2020, 09:49 AM   #2231
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Captain - please! After you post, go back and edit all the double spacing. My browser does the same thing, and I fix it with an edit.
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Old 09-17-2020, 09:56 AM   #2232
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I agree with the Captain. Even if wealth inequality is greater than ever, the base has come up a lot and there are fewer people in extreme poverty than ever. Greenhouse gasses are a problem, but our air quality is way better than it was in the mid 20th century in major cities.


There is still a lot of room for us to improve though and we need to keep pushing to get better.
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Old 09-17-2020, 09:56 AM   #2233
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Originally Posted by llwhiteoutll View Post
Where did you get your information that the neighbors were upset and that the bear was "barely the minimum size", because it sure wasn't in that article.
Quote:
It was an unusual night for neighbours at a downtown Calgary apartment who saw what they described as a dead bear cub being carried into their building Sunday night.
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Wildlife officers said it’s not uncommon for them to get these kinds of calls as a legal black bear may only be about 120 pounds.
It could have been just bearly over the limit.
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Old 09-17-2020, 10:22 AM   #2234
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Originally Posted by Cecil Terwilliger View Post
Sorry Cap’n but you’re just doing the same thing but on a smaller timeline.

The problems that previous generations faced aren’t relevant to the OP’s point.

It’s gatekeeping. It’s like saying someone knows nothing about depression because I know someone else who was way more depressed than that. Comparisons are pointless and it becomes a really sad pissing contest to see who had it worse.

Blaming it on the media, hysteria, wimpy kids etc is just a way people monopolize sympathy or frustration or whatever it is that motivates people to minimalize the problems of others to make their own issues seem worse.
Would you want to leave today and go back to any time in history ? I know my answer is no. I can’t see how anyone would actually think there is a time in history they would rather live in.

So either the argument is wrong, or the actual argument / statement is the world has always been and still is a terrible place.

If its the later then I don’t know what to say other then I feel sorry for someone who goes through life everyday believing the world is and always has been terrible instead of the massive leaps in almost every aspect of quality of life that are occurring at an exponential pace
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Old 09-17-2020, 10:50 AM   #2235
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Watching "The Crown" it's pretty hilarious the level of luxury they have, compared to today. We have way better stuff than the Royals did 50 years ago.
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Old 09-17-2020, 11:15 AM   #2236
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Just for fun and because I'm a jerk, the whole Nuclear stock piles thing at some kind of unprecedented level.

United States 1980 23,600 war heads, 2020 4800 projected to 2022 3620
Russia/Soviet Union 1980 30,000 2020 6375 projected 2022 535
China 1980 204 2020 320 2022 220
World Wide 1980 54509 220 13400

We're never going to get to Nuclear net zero unless another strategic weapon comes along that provides deterrence which is never going to go away as a concept.

We're never going to get a war head reduction to the point of a theoretically winnable war. The question is going to be how much over kill is needed. If there is ever a 100% workable defense shield we'll see another rise in war heads, or a leap forward in penetrative technology.

But no Nuclear Weapons are nowhere near unprecedented levels. even going by explosive yields.
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Old 09-17-2020, 11:21 AM   #2237
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Just for fun and because I'm a jerk, the whole Nuclear stock piles thing at some kind of unprecedented level.

United States 1980 23,600 war heads, 2020 4800 projected to 2022 3620
Russia/Soviet Union 1980 30,000 2020 6375 projected 2022 535
China 1980 204 2020 320 2022 220
World Wide 1980 54509 220 13400

We're never going to get to Nuclear net zero unless another strategic weapon comes along that provides deterrence which is never going to go away as a concept.

We're never going to get a war head reduction to the point of a theoretically winnable war. The question is going to be how much over kill is needed. If there is ever a 100% workable defense shield we'll see another rise in war heads, or a leap forward in penetrative technology.

But no Nuclear Weapons are nowhere near unprecedented levels. even going by explosive yields.

isn't it also true that these are public numbers and it's quite hard to confirm exactly how many war heads are left in certain areas of the world? or which factions or dictators may have access? or that some have been unaccounted for and "lost"?

To be more profound, the number of explosive Karen's has...er.. exploded.
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Old 09-17-2020, 11:30 AM   #2238
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Possibly these numbers are based on inventory counts combined with the record of warheads destroyed. Inventory controls are pretty much very stringent except of North Korea. Also I would strongly question that South Africa has abandoned their nuclear program, and Israel's counts are up for debate as well. There aren't too many that are lost that are actually lost.
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Old 09-17-2020, 11:36 AM   #2239
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jason14h View Post
Would you want to leave today and go back to any time in history ? I know my answer is no. I can’t see how anyone would actually think there is a time in history they would rather live in.

So either the argument is wrong, or the actual argument / statement is the world has always been and still is a terrible place.

If its the later then I don’t know what to say other then I feel sorry for someone who goes through life everyday believing the world is and always has been terrible instead of the massive leaps in almost every aspect of quality of life that are occurring at an exponential pace
What part of ‘this isn’t a pissing contest of worst time in history’ is confusing you here?

No one cares what life was like in 12th century England. It means nothing to anyone.

What matters is the state of the world right now. It’s bad. That’s not a hard concept to grasp.
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Old 09-17-2020, 11:53 AM   #2240
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Originally Posted by Cecil Terwilliger View Post
What part of ‘this isn’t a pissing contest of worst time in history’ is confusing you here?

No one cares what life was like in 12th century England. It means nothing to anyone.

What matters is the state of the world right now. It’s bad. That’s not a hard concept to grasp.
You poll a thousand people in Canada: Is life good or bad right now? What do you think the results are?
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