Edmonton is No Good X: Up and Down Like a Toilet Seat

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by Ashasx

Yeah I legitimately can 100% say, without question, there was no chance Lucic was going to be selected when Giordano was available. Lucic may have literally been the least desired player on the Flames in that draft.

He could just have said no. And made the Flames expose Bennett.

There was a legit question in my mind whether the Kraken would want Gio's salary ad risk they couldn't move him at the deadline if his skills declined a lot.

Plus Lucic is as close to a local guy as they could get, with a lot of personality. sort of an Engelland/Vegas.

[Ashasx]

Originally Posted by stang

He still didn’t have to do that at all. Tre could have sweetened the pot to take him. He did the flames a big favour tbh

Why wouldn't he waive?

He would not benefit at all from refusing to waive. He was staying in Calgary regardless of that decision.

The only thing that would happen is the Flames, the team he plays on, would likely come out of the expansion draft worse. It would almost be malicious to refuse to waive.

Originally Posted by Bingo

Yeah I legitimately can 100% say, without question, that you missed the point of my reply.

I didn't. Your contention is simply ridiculous.

Originally Posted by GioforPM

There was a legit question in my mind whether the Kraken would want Gio's salary ad risk they couldn't move him at the deadline if his skills declined a lot.

So they would risk taking on Lucic instead?

[stang]

Originally Posted by GioforPM

The current system is they take the teams' word for it. We all looked at this with Kucherov.

Yeah not true. The league has its own doctors that watch this too. They checked lupul and hossa. Pretty sure they looked at Kutcherov too and I remember them watching Landeskogs injury close to playoffs last year I believe.

[TrentCrimmIndependent]

Originally Posted by stang

Well hate to burst your bubble but if Mike smith just retired his cap hit would have just been gone. Would have been better for the team.

I could be incorrect but aren't teams on the book for the remainder of age 35+ multi-year contracts if the player retires?

I thought that was clarified by someone in training camp

if that's the case, then the Oilers absolutely arranged a charade with Smith since he had nagging issues in order to be rid of his salary

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by stang

Yeah not true. The league has its own doctors that watch this too. They checked lupul and hossa. Pretty sure they looked at Kutcherov too and I remember them watching Landeskogs injury close to playoffs last year I believe.

They don't check unless they want to. And they rarely want to. There are zero set standards. Did Lupul and Hossa say they weren't injured? And my understanding is they just look at the team doctors' stuff - a records check. They don't get an independent physical.

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by TrentCrimmIndependent

I could be incorrect but aren't teams on the book for the remainder of age 35+ multi-year contracts if the player retires?

I thought that was clarified by someone in training camp

if that's the case, then the Oilers absolutely arranged a charade with Smith since he had nagging issues in order to be rid of his salary

Smith's contract isn't considered a "35+". It's not 35+ if:

-total compensation either stays the same or increases from one year to the subsequent year

-there are no signing bonuses after Year 1

[Bingo]

Originally Posted by Ashasx

I didn't. Your contention is simply ridiculous.

The only thing ridiculous in this conversation is you refusing to believe the did the team a solid for negating a contractual right to not be protected.

[stang]

Originally Posted by TrentCrimmIndependent

I could be incorrect but aren't teams on the book for the remainder of age 35+ multi-year contracts if the player retires?

I thought that was clarified by someone in training camp

if that's the case, then the Oilers absolutely arranged a charade with Smith since he had nagging issues in order to be rid of his salary

Nope

https://twitter.com/puckpedia/status...dz-ExiitdTluFw

[jroc]

Ashax is missing the point. It wasn’t an option between Gio and Lucic. If Lucic didn’t waive, maybe they pick somebody like Dube. Anyway you look at it, Lucic did the team ‘a solid’.

Back on track now… man, Edmonton is no good!

[Captain Otto]

Originally Posted by stang

Duncan Keith made about $70 million in his career. I’m pretty sure that even when the hawks signed him to his cap circumventing contract they were expecting him not to play for 1.5 million in his last year.



Mike Smith had been dealing with a nagging groin injury for years. He’s been missing time every season since before 2018 due to it. Pretty sure it’s more a quality of life thing at 40 years old. Like klefbom who finished the season and then had to decide if playing through the pain was worth it. Klefbom had a career ending injury. Mike smith just had an injury at the end of his career.



You actually have to have an injury to go on LTIR. That’s why Lucic can’t do it.



Yamamoto has been dealing with concussions. he missed 11 games in November. He got hit hard again and hasn’t been in for the past 3 games already. I’m guessing it’s due to the concussions as to why he’s out again. He wasn’t put on LTIR the first 11 games, or these past couple games because it was actually detrimental to due so. Same reason OK isn’t put on LTIR. There’s zero benefit to doing it right now for the flames. However it may happen at the deadline if the flames trade for a player or two and then they need the space.



LTIR isn’t some magical cheat code. Being in it is a disadvantage.



And not even sure how to answer TrentCrimm question how is Yamamoto LTIR eligible with a timetable of "later this month". What part of that doesn’t make sense?

How has LTIR disadvantaged the Oilers?

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[TrentCrimmIndependent]

LTIR allowed them to retain Kane

what disadvantage

still would like an explanation on what qualifies Yamamoto for LTIR

here's hoping they have to pay a high pick a la Monahan to send someone out to remain cap compliant in a couple weeks

about time there are ramifications for continuing to make adds with cents left to spend on paper

[looooob]

Originally Posted by Captain Otto

How has LTIR disadvantaged the Oilers?

Sent from my Pixel 6 Pro using Tapatalk

I'm not an expert by any means, but I'll agree to an extent, you would rather not use LTIR if you can avoid it, so I don't think its an advantage per se (hence why for example the flames are not , and shouldn't LTIR OK)



but once you are having to use LTIR , which the Oilers essentially are all the time, partly due to Klefbom, but also as their best way to make Smith disappear, and then they had to start the year squeezing out every penny you have


once you are stuck in LTIR mode, I feel like it can be an advantage sort of to use it more(I'll be quiet on whether the Oilers are abusing it or not, I don't know the answer)


with Kane back it should have meant several of Ryan, Janmark, Holloway etc back to minor or waivers, they can avoid that by deploying Yamamoto to LTIR- but that does deprive them of Yamamoto- YMMV whether that is a good or bad thing

[Samonadreau]

Oilers are no good

[Fuzz]

Originally Posted by Samonadreau

Oilers are no good

Edmonton concrete is no good. Their new LRT line, also on LTIR

https://twitter.com/user/status/1615850945895895040

[FlamesAddiction]

Originally Posted by looooob

I'm not an expert by any means, but I'll agree to an extent, you would rather not use LTIR if you can avoid it, so I don't think its an advantage per se (hence why for example the flames are not , and shouldn't LTIR OK)



but once you are having to use LTIR , which the Oilers essentially are all the time, partly due to Klefbom, but also as their best way to make Smith disappear, and then they had to start the year squeezing out every penny you have


once you are stuck in LTIR mode, I feel like it can be an advantage sort of to use it more(I'll be quiet on whether the Oilers are abusing it or not, I don't know the answer)


with Kane back it should have meant several of Ryan, Janmark, Holloway etc back to minor or waivers, they can avoid that by deploying Yamamoto to LTIR- but that does deprive them of Yamamoto- YMMV whether that is a good or bad thing

Putting Smith on LTIR was a pretty big advantage. Without that, they would have either had to keep him on the roster full cap and no Skinner, or buried/bought him out which would have a cap penalty. Given where they at the cap limit, the other option would have forced them to lose a player.

[Sofa GM]

Originally Posted by TrentCrimmIndependent

LTIR allowed them to retain Kane

what disadvantage

still would like an explanation on what qualifies Yamamoto for LTIR

here's hoping they have to pay a high pick a la Monahan to send someone out to remain cap compliant in a couple weeks

about time there are ramifications for continuing to make adds with cents left to spend on paper

Don’t worry, Stang will sort it all out for you he’s an expert you know…….. holy moly.

[looooob]

Originally Posted by FlamesAddiction

Putting Smith on LTIR was a pretty big advantage. Without that, they would have either had to keep him on the roster full cap and no Skinner, or buried/bought him out which would have a cap penalty. Given where they at the cap limit, the other option would have forced them to lose a player.

I don't disagree and I think my previous post was partly not well worded


I think in most circumstances its not ideal to be running into LTIR (again Flames don't want to put Kylington on LTIR unless necessary)



but teams can get themselves painted into corners (and some teams like theh Oilers live painted into corners) where it is needed

[stang]

Originally Posted by Captain Otto

How has LTIR disadvantaged the Oilers?

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This is pretty easy stuff to look up, but if you’re not in LTIR your cap essentially banks up. Flames have 1 million in cap space but by the trade deadline comes you can add a 4 million dollar player without having to move any cap.

For the 16 or 17 teams that are in LTIR that doesn’t happen. If they want to add a 4 million dollar player they need 4 million dollars going out.

Originally Posted by TrentCrimmIndependent

LTIR allowed them to retain Kane

what disadvantage

still would like an explanation on what qualifies Yamamoto for LTIR

here's hoping they have to pay a high pick a la Monahan to send someone out to remain cap compliant in a couple weeks

about time there are ramifications for continuing to make adds with cents left to spend on paper

How did LTIR allow them to retain Kane? Kane was on the roster at the beginning of the year.

Yamamoto being hurt qualifies him to be on LTIR. Same as any player on LTIR.

They won’t have to pay any picks a La Monohan even with Yamamoto healthy. There’s a path without picks. EX Sending Derek Ryan down

Best case would have been smith retiring. Cap hit disappears. Any other version would have worked just fine as well.

Seriously follow Puckpedia on Twitter. Great resource. I’m no expert but he does great on breaking it all down. The puck pedia guy also goes on Oilers now and explains the cap rules and that.

[GioforPM]

Sending Ryan down would not have made enough room for Kane.

[stang]

Originally Posted by GioforPM

Sending Ryan down would not have made enough room for Kane.

Puckpedia man. Just figure this out on your own

https://twitter.com/puckpedia/status...dz-ExiitdTluFw