Ongoing thread for Neal/Lucic discussion

[the2bears]

Originally Posted by Yobbo

I just wish the team would have at least given Neal sometime this year to prove last year was an anomaly. It was a horrid decision by Treliving to take Lucic's contract off our biggest and most hated rivals.

It wasn't going to happen here. Neal was praying to be traded, and you think that's worth another chance?

[Jiri Hrdina]

If someone doesn't want to be on your team, you can't let that fester.
We can say they should have bought him out instead, but that's really an ownership decision.
So within the possible trades available for the team - really a Lucic type of deal was the only likely fit.
I maintain the mistake was the signing. I don't buy into the Lucic deal compounding it. In fact, allowing Neal to remain may have also compounded it.

[Yobbo]

I do actually if it meant not taking on the Lucic contract. Could have had Neal play extremely well so we could trade him for a much better player, with much better contract. I know it's all hindsight, but the whole signing has put this team back IMO.

[powderjunkie]

For me it boils down to whether Lucic was the possible solution for the Neal problem. It seems it was probably the only one available at the time, but it was the absolute worst time to have to do it (it seems this was the tightest cap crunch year ever league-wide?). The Lucic trade was convenient because it solved a few problems at once, but the cost is an unsolvable problem for the next 4 years.


Neal missed 10+ games six times in the last 9 seasons. Buy out possible. LTIR possible. Bury in Stockton possible (of course little cap relief). A trade would always be possible, it's just a matter of how much you have to sweeten or the crap you have to take back.

Lucic has an NMC and hasn't missed more than 3 games in a season in the last 9 years.


I think it would also be a fun exercise to read the first few hundred posts of the Lucic signing and Neal signing threads. A suspect a few posters have spun themselves around so much that they must be very dizzy.

[ComixZone]

Originally Posted by Jiri Hrdina

If someone doesn't want to be on your team, you can't let that fester.
We can say they should have bought him out instead, but that's really an ownership decision.
So within the possible trades available for the team - really a Lucic type of deal was the only likely fit.
I maintain the mistake was the signing. I don't buy into the Lucic deal compounding it. In fact, allowing Neal to remain may have also compounded it.

Not making any moves to improve the right side in the off-season was also a disaster as moving Neal made a weak position even weaker. Neal was signed because our RW depth is/was atrocious. He was clearly scouted wrong, as there's no way he'd get deployed with Backlund, and Peters (rightfully) seemed to have Lindholm slotted as RW #1 right from the get go. So where was Neal supposed to fit in?

Big flip flop for me all over the place. I wanted Neal back and was excited what a proper offseason could do for him. Then I was happy with the deal when hearing Neal wasn't particularly happy here - although I'm not sure I can blame him, as he's a PP specialist and one-dimensional player, and after we signed him we didn't use him for either. The scouts and Tree really screwed this up, and then Peters didn't work with the player all that well to build a spot that worked for both sides.

Now we get to watch Peters panic with his roster as he cycles everyone in and out only to end up doing the same thing Gulutzan did which was leave Frolik there, even though the team itself isn't having any real success (this season).

The roster lacks a good #3 centre, and general RW depth. Pretty big warts, which while Tree has tried to address, he has failed to. This will be where Tree really defines himself as a GM in my eyes. He's up against the cap, he's spent a good amount of futures to get the roster to this point so the prospect pool is pretty sub-par, and now he's had a team get smoked in the playoffs and come out of the gate looking rattled and inadequate. It's on the players in place to knock off the rust, but given how last year played out - the questions of "what are the Calgary Flames" is valid. It's not like we've had any level of continued success, and the roster issues are quite apparent (particularly with Treliving very publicly attempting to address them over the last few months). Does he go down the Darryl Sutter "what the hell do I do now" style of roster adjustments if the team falters, or does he continue to trust the process and show patience. I'd argue the Lucic deal was more in line with Darryl Sutter's implosion than the latter.

[Steve Bozek]

Originally Posted by Jiri Hrdina

If someone doesn't want to be on your team, you can't let that fester.
We can say they should have bought him out instead, but that's really an ownership decision.
So within the possible trades available for the team - really a Lucic type of deal was the only likely fit.
I maintain the mistake was the signing. I don't buy into the Lucic deal compounding it. In fact, allowing Neal to remain may have also compounded it.

I agree the basic mistake was the signing. But regardless of the tough guy gain, I fear Lucic’s abilities will continue to decline and he will be a $5+M AHL player within 1-2 seasons. BT’s free agent signings sure have been a mixed bag.

[Resolute 14]

Honestly, Lucic is already a $5 million AHL player. He adds absolutely nothing that dozen other guys in the AHL Pacific wouldn't at a fraction of the cost.

[Yobbo]

Originally Posted by Resolute 14

Honestly, Lucic is already a $5 million AHL player. He adds absolutely nothing that dozen other guys in the AHL Pacific wouldn't at a fraction of the cost.

Rinaldo comes to mind, and he can actually skate.

[Bingo]

Originally Posted by ricardodw

I agree,. The Flames had total broken Neal before the playoffs. He was useless.


You think it was Neal's fault. No blame for Peters? Not his job to get the most out of the talent?

Nope you didn't understand.

He was 18th in Vegas in their playoff run. He wasn't playing well he was getting owned five on five. The Flames should never have acquired him as he was already taking on water.

[Rando]

Originally Posted by Resolute 14

Honestly, Lucic is already a $5 million AHL player. He adds absolutely nothing that dozen other guys in the AHL Pacific wouldn't at a fraction of the cost.

Yup, agreed. It's unfortunate Jankowski is playing so poorly and our depth looks terrible right now, but Lucic needs to sit.

[dino7c]

Lucic was one of the Flames better forwards in Vegas...and you know who wasn't running around like usual

[DazzlinDino]

The Brouwer, Neal signings really set the Flames back both on te ice and in terms of cap flexibility. Despite how bad both Brouwer and Neal played they still got ice time. Some poor decisions overall leading to some wasted opportunities. That said this is still a strong Flames team, and should make an impact this season.

[Flash Walken]

Originally Posted by dino7c

Lucic was one of the Flames better forwards in Vegas...and you know who wasn't running around like usual

LoL, reaves wasn't running around because he was busy scoring goals.

1 goal, +3, 0 PIMs, 8:14 total icetime

[nik-]

No one is afraid of Lucic. This needs to stop.

We bet that a three year downward trajectory was more likely to return to effectiveness than a one off year trajectory. We bet poorly, we got burnt.

[Galakanokis]

I was never a fan of this trade but Neal was useless here, beyond useless really. Ideally we have neither player and you can go back to Brouwer not working out to find out why we are here. I don’t think Lucic has really been all that bad especially compared to how Neal played last year. He had numerous good shifts last night and his lines generated chances and turnovers. He is far from what ails the Flames right now.

Neal scoring 7 and the oilers being 5-0 suck but I will wait until the season is over to see how this turned out.

[powderjunkie]

Originally Posted by dino7c

Oh god, and all the other teams that have given him away?

All the piling on is ridiculous...Neal is not a star

So...giving away equals the following?

- Trading him for Patrick Hornqvist... (a pretty darn good player who helped them win 2 cups)
- Leaving a 30 yo player with 1 year left to UFA unprotected. Yes, it's 'giving' hime away, but it's also the best case scenario of who you would want to lose in an expansion draft
- Letting the player complete his contract and not re-signing him to an insane deal


Neal is not a star. But he has been able to produce in every other place he has played except Calgary, including the dumpster fire up north. Until this team proves it can actually compete in the playoffs, we are very much throwing stones from a glass house.

[Geeoff]

Originally Posted by Flash Walken

If the Flames had bought out Neal, the Oilers would still have lucic, the Flames would have cap space and Neal woulddn't be a distraction.

Instead, the Flames have no cap space, the Oilers get out from under Lucic and Neal is still a distraction even though he's not even on the team anymore.

Initially I wanted to see the merit in the trade as well, dufus for dufus yadda yadda yadda, but the more I thought about it, the more it became clear to me that this was a really, really bad decision by Flames management.

I never liked this deal for the Flames based on adding Lucic's NMC but I still believe that time will reveal both of these players to be bad NHLers, despite Neal's hot streak to begin the year.

[Bingo]

Originally Posted by Erick Estrada

The amount of mental gymnastics going on in this thread is ludicrous. The Oilers got the better player and the contract that was more buyout friendly. They clearly fleeced the Flames on this trade and this is the only place where you will find a contrary opinion. At least the Flames will have a 3rd round pick coming and I suppose if they can nail that pick it's the only hope of salvaging the trade.

Duhatchek wrote an article this week, Burke on HNIC last night, I'm sure I could find more examples.

Neal is not a good hockey player. He's terrible defensively, he's lost a step in a league that is getting faster every day. He was a terrible signing and because of that signing Calgary has an overpaid fourth line player.

That's not mental gymnastics, it's a pretty simple summary. You certainly don't have to agree with it, but you don't have to bought and paid for to see it differently than you.

Neal will have zero positive impact once he stops scoring, and he will. Lucic has limited positive impact for sure, but hopefully those intangible help.

[Steve Bozek]

Originally Posted by Resolute 14

Honestly, Lucic is already a $5 million AHL player. He adds absolutely nothing that dozen other guys in the AHL Pacific wouldn't at a fraction of the cost.

I would rather have Hathaway.

[ricardodw]

Originally Posted by Bingo

Nope you didn't understand.

He was 18th in Vegas in their playoff run. He wasn't playing well he was getting owned five on five. The Flames should never have acquired him as he was already taking on water.

Yes but Vegas hadn't broken him. They got a spectacular playoff performance out of him.

Agree that any 30+ UFA is not usually worth the money.

Lucic has a crappy season and gets 10 pts in 22 playoff games and the Flames win the trade.

It is up to Peters to keep Lucic involved enough to give him a chance to be a playoff success.