Brexit - The continuing mission to explore strange new forms of silliness

[Ozy_Flame]

Originally Posted by FlameOn

The UK is now facing its largest single year economic decline in over 300 years. Economists now estimate that Brexit will cost the UK 4 times more than the EU. Good job Boris and Brexiteers.

https://www.cbsnews.com/news/uk-covi...-in-300-years/

Would love to hear Andrew Scheer and Jason Kenney revisit this topic over an English ale.

[VladtheImpaler]

Originally Posted by VladtheImpaler

Because of the nature of the parliamentary system, if the Tories run in the election as the Brexit party, they might win a huge majority with 40-45% of the vote. The anti vote will be split between LDP and Labour because Corbyn is an idiot, and Labour will lose a bunch of "Trump" voters to the Tories because of Brexit. The one thing Johnson has managed to do is basically make the Brexit Party irrelevant, so I think the electoral math sets up for a big Tory win, even if "No" would win a new Brexit referendum.

Gosh, I just want to pat myself on the back. I am now a political consultant - pay me a few million to predict the future. Perhaps you would like to hire me for your campaign?

[chemgear]

lol

https://newseu.cgtn.com/news/2021-04...QNq/index.html

Five years ago, Joe voted for his home country, Britain, to leave the European Union.

"Brexit itself, when it was first started, was going to be brilliant because I honestly believe that Britain should stay Britain and we run by ourselves," says Joe. But he had no idea of how Brexit was to impact his dream of retiring abroad.

"Nobody explained or probably thought about people like ourselves. There was nobody looking after it or telling us, they forgot about the people abroad."

If he could vote again in the Brexit referendum, Joe says he'd vote differently knowing how things turned out.

"There's no way I would vote to go for it, because it's harming me and my future, what I want to do with what time we have left, me and my wife together, in this sort of surroundings."

[I-Hate-Hulse]

You're quoting a story from the State Controlled "China Global Television Network" for how Brexit was a failure?

[TorqueDog]

Not that I disagree that the source needs to be considered with skepticism, it isn’t hard to find stories from reputable outlets detailing the post-Brexit remorse of people who voted ‘Leave’ only to realize it has completely screwed their livelihoods and businesses over hard.

[afc wimbledon]

Originally Posted by TorqueDog

Not that I disagree that the source needs to be considered with skepticism, it isn’t hard to find stories from reputable outlets detailing the post-Brexit remorse of people who voted ‘Leave’ only to realize it has completely screwed their livelihoods and businesses over hard.

yep the only people in the UK still extolling the virtues of Brexit are the ones claiming it would have worked if it wasn't for Covid

[Flashpoint]

Regretsit

[MegaErtz]

Originally Posted by devo22

I don't like Piers Morgan at all, but watching him make Matt Hancock squirm like that is just beautiful.

https://twitter.com/user/status/1349280342117593088

Totally missed this back when you posted it. So great to watch it when we know what we know now.

[Hack&Lube]

Brexit is the perfect example of one of democracy's greatest flaws - those in power use their power, wealth, and influence to sway the voting mob on emotional decisions or voting by fear rather than educating the population and having them vote rationally and with facts.

[FlamesAddiction]

There are many legitimate advantages and disadvantages for being in the EU. Those tend to vary depending on the size and economic power of the countries. I don't blame some people for not wanting to be part of it, and it works out better for some countries to not be in it. But once you are integrated in, there are of course going to be growing pains when you leave.

I don't think the EU as we know it lasts another 100 year, maybe not even 50. Polls in France a couple of years ago actually had a less favourable view of the EU than similar polls in Britain. If, or when France frexits, it will just be a German economic union. With countries like Italy and Greece borrowing from the EU at more than 100% their GDP, it just won't be sustainable.

[Matata]

What lessons should Canada be learning from this?should we aspire to join an EU style Confederation of Nations or should we avoid it like the plague because once your in, there's no good way out?

[CliffFletcher]

Originally Posted by Hack&Lube

Brexit is the perfect example of one of democracy's greatest flaws - those in power use their power, wealth, and influence to sway the voting mob on emotional decisions or voting by fear rather than educating the population and having them vote rationally and with facts.

Most people in positions of authority in the UK - most parties, politicians, educators, celebrities, corporate leaders, business groups, unions, professional associations, the finance industry, and most of the mainstream media - were against Brexit. The lesson from Brexit (and from Trump, the yellow vests in France, etc) is that much of the working class have lost faith in the elites and their institutions, and no longer regard their authority as legitimate.

https://www.vox.com/future-perfect/2...obal-democracy

[PeteMoss]

Originally Posted by CliffFletcher

Most people in positions of authority in the UK - most parties, politicians, educators, celebrities, corporate leaders, business groups, unions, professional associations, the finance industry, and most of the mainstream media - were against Brexit. The lesson from Brexit (and from Trump, the yellow vests in France, etc) is that much of the working class have lost faith in the elites and their institutions, and no longer regard their authority as legitimate.

https://www.vox.com/future-perfect/2...obal-democracy

Trump, Farage, Boris, etc aren't elites? Its just a different group of rich people leading. US and UK are also enabled by very strong right wing media outlets.

[burn_this_city]

Cliff giving us hot takes from 2016.

Lesson from Brexit and Trump, don't trust politicians providing easy answers to complex problems. If they stoke nationalism, cast doubt on expertise, shout down rational debate, sloganeer, and appeal to people's xenophobia via culture wars nonsense, you are being taken for a ride.

[CliffFletcher]

Originally Posted by PeteMoss

Trump, Farage, Boris, etc aren't elites? Its just a different group of rich people leading. US and UK are also enabled by very strong right wing media outlets.

Look up how people in the top 25 per cent of income and the top 25 per cent in educational attainment voted in Brexit. The elites aren’t a handful of rich demagogues. The elite are the educated, professional class who run government, education, culture, and corporations. Many of us posting here are elites. If you’re university educated, have parents who are university educated, a spouse who’s university educated, you have transportable skills, and you earn a good living in the knowledge economy, then you’re a winner in our society. And you increasingly have different values and interests from the mass of lumpenfolk. Sorry if that makes you feel uncomfortable.

The total audience for Fox News is only a fraction of Americans. Same with the Daily Mail in the UK. And newspapers have owned by right-wing interests for generations, but what we’re seeing in politics today is not business as usual. Blaming the fissures opening up in society on a handful of bad actors is wishful thinking. The bad actors are exploiting the divisions in our society, but they didn’t create them.

Take a few minutes to read the article I linked to. Or if you’re genuinely interested in the subject of populism, read Gurri’s book. It’s not left vs right boilerplate. It’s an analysis of how the loss of elite control of information has undermined the authority of our institutions, and the challenge it poses to democracy.

[CliffFletcher]

Originally Posted by burn_this_city

Cliff giving us hot takes from 2016.

Lesson from Brexit and Trump, don't trust politicians providing easy answers to complex problems. If they stoke nationalism, cast doubt on expertise, shout down rational debate, sloganeer, and appeal to people's xenophobia via culture wars nonsense, you are being taken for a ride.

So your solution is to tell people who listen to Trump or voted for Brexit that they’re fools? You think that will really change minds?

The question you need to ask is why so many more people today are vulnerable to the appeals of demagogues. It would have been unthinkable 20 years ago for someone hated by the Republican establishment win the presidential nomination. It would have been unthinkable 20 years ago for a referendum that every major party in the UK either opposed or remained neutral about to win.

[Locke]

Originally Posted by burn_this_city

Cliff giving us hot takes from 2016.

Lesson from Brexit and Trump, don't trust politicians providing easy answers to complex problems. If they stoke nationalism, cast doubt on expertise, shout down rational debate, sloganeer, and appeal to people's xenophobia via culture wars nonsense, you are being taken for a ride.

This was the big thing for me. Once you start seeing the slogans is immediately when the BS-O-Meter should be going off like a Geiger Counter at Chernobyl.

Boris Johnson's bus promising huge funding for the NHS instead of paying out to the EU?

Come on...Bull....

Shaming/Blaming Immigrants? The Flags dont come much 'redder.'

And it goes on and on.

Its like envisioning John Hurt giving a speach in 'V for Vendetta.'

"Stoking unbridled Nationalism and Scapegoating immigrants and minorities. This seems like sound policy!"

[burn_this_city]

Originally Posted by CliffFletcher

So your solution is to tell people who listen to Trump or voted for Brexit that they’re fools? You think that will really change minds?

The question you need to ask is why so many more people today are vulnerable to the appeals of demagogues. It would have been unthinkable 20 years ago for someone hated by the Republican establishment win the presidential nomination. It would have been unthinkable 20 years ago for a referendum that every major party in the UK either opposed or remained neutral about to win.

Seems plainly evident you aren't going to convince people they've been conned. If 30-40% of the country denies reality you can only appeal to the remaining 60-70%.

Enough people in the US woke up to Trump's demagoguery, it's a shame it took 500k dead from Coronavirus. The UK exporters, fishermen and Northern Irish seem to be waking up to reality as well. Trump and Brexit won by the slimmest of margins to begin with, neither delivered anything close to what was promised.

All they have left is culture war nonsense and attacking centrists and liberals as socialists. Donald Trump didn't have a single coherent policy prescription for the 2020 election. Sleepy Joe won the Presidential election by barely leaving his house.

[afc wimbledon]

Originally Posted by CliffFletcher

So your solution is to tell people who listen to Trump or voted for Brexit that they’re fools? You think that will really change minds?

The question you need to ask is why so many more people today are vulnerable to the appeals of demagogues. It would have been unthinkable 20 years ago for someone hated by the Republican establishment win the presidential nomination. It would have been unthinkable 20 years ago for a referendum that every major party in the UK either opposed or remained neutral about to win.

50% of the population have always been morons that can barely tie their shoelaces, but back in the good old days they knew they were idiots and trusted the system the provided them with the best life any human has ever had in history, we now live in an age when science can miraculously produce a vaccine to Covid in a few short months while the simple act of wearing a face mask can keep a society relatively safe and yet all the gibbering fools can do is mutter about Bill Gates and 5G and their God given right to infect everyone.

This aint on 'the elites' what ever they or that is, unless you mean Mark Zuckerberg, its definitely on him, he has empowered the ######ed and now we are all pretty much doomed as these twats are going to eff it all up.

[PeteMoss]

Originally Posted by CliffFletcher

Look up how people in the top 25 per cent of income and the top 25 per cent in educational attainment voted in Brexit. The elites aren’t a handful of rich demagogues. The elite are the educated, professional class who run government, education, culture, and corporations. Many of us posting here are elites. If you’re university educated, have parents who are university educated, a spouse who’s university educated, you have transportable skills, and you earn a good living in the knowledge economy, then you’re a winner in our society. And you increasingly have different values and interests from the mass of lumpenfolk. Sorry if that makes you feel uncomfortable.

The total audience for Fox News is only a fraction of Americans. Same with the Daily Mail in the UK. And newspapers have owned by right-wing interests for generations, but what we’re seeing in politics today is not business as usual. Blaming the fissures opening up in society on a handful of bad actors is wishful thinking. The bad actors are exploiting the divisions in our society, but they didn’t create them.

Take a few minutes to read the article I linked to. Or if you’re genuinely interested in the subject of populism, read Gurri’s book. It’s not left vs right boilerplate. It’s an analysis of how the loss of elite control of information has undermined the authority of our institutions, and the challenge it poses to democracy.

I read it.

The Trump supporter being poor is a myth. They may not be educated. But they aren't poor.

Poor people vote more democrats, rich people vote more for Republicans.
https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/...president.html