Calgary Flames General Manager Ranking - #2

[Textcritic]

Originally Posted by Strange Brew

No doubt Treliving wins this round, for the same reason Brodie voted as one of the franchise's all time great defensemen over HOFers and a guy that nearly won a Norris and a Calder while playing here.

I suppose Ward to be considered one of the all time great coaches too.

Do tell. What reason is that?

[Strange Brew]

Originally Posted by DeluxeMoustache

Brad needs some kind of on ice success, any kind, before he is even in the conversation.

Boom. His 6th year at the helm and the team potentially misses the playoffs with a bare prospect cupboard and several expiring contracts. Sutter's fault?

[Sidney Crosby's Hat]

I think Treliving has done a good job. I voted Coates because he had a tough road to negotiate and did a lot of good things which helped to build a foundation for the team to succeed in the early-to-mid 2000s. Acquiring Iginla and Regehr (both in trades where he had a leverage disadvantage) is enough to edge him ahead of Brad.

For those saying Treliving hasn't had the results, well he has. In five seasons, he's gotten the team to the playoffs three times. Basically a coin toss away from four out of six depending on the play-in round this year (I think they would have made it in normal circumstances). On top of that, the team had the best record last year in the Western Conference and second overall in the NHL which is a pretty outstanding result. And the team has a good core.

He also won a playoff round, which only two other Flames GMs can say they've accomplished.

[greyshep]

Coates brought us Iggy, thats enough convincing for me, this list is actually kind of sad.

[Textcritic]

Originally Posted by DeluxeMoustache

Brad needs some kind of on ice success, any kind, before he is even in the conversation.

The team he built placed first in the Conference for the first time since the SC Championship team, won the Division for the first time since 2006, and registered the second-highest point-total in the history of the franchise.

Yeah, Treliving still has a lot of work to do, but let's at least be honest about his record. If he wins this round—as it appears he will—it will be on merit.

[Crown Royal]

I really can't decide between Coates, Sutter and Treliving. I need a 3 sided coin.

[Cali Panthers Fan]

Yesterday's discussion cemented Coates as #2 for me. In a no-win situation, he did very well considering the hand he was dealt. Got some great foundation pieces for expensive stars that were forced out of town due to budget. Solid if unremarkable drafting. Kept the franchise afloat during some dark times. (Remember when there was serious talk of moving the franchise?). Coates didn't make any egregious errors that I can remember, and most of his moves were positive in light of circumstances.

Treliving would be #2 for me if he hadn't made some horrible UFA signings in Brouwer and Neal. Too many buyouts and mistakes for me to give him #2, but he's right there at #3 or #4 along with Sutter. Guys who mostly made good moves but some serious errors as well. At least Treliving has been better at drafting and finding free agents in Europe (Rittich). Sutter had the worst minor league system this team has ever had.

[FlamesAddiction]

I had to go with Coates. He had a really hard job to do at the time and did it as well as anyone could have I think. Being the GM of the Flames at that time wasn't the most sought after position.

I really have mixed feelings about Treliving. While the results haven't been terrible, he has wasted a lot of resources. Resources that Coates could have only dreamed of at the time (for example, a high payroll relative to the rest of the league, buyouts, burying players in the AHL, being a more attractive place for free agents and coaches, firing coaches at will, etc...). The owners would have never given Coates that much room to maneuver at the time.

Both Sutter and Treliving IMO, have some extreme ups and downs.

[Cali Panthers Fan]

Originally Posted by Sylvanfan

Button.. just awful...he should be last place.

Nope, that should be Risebrough. Took an elite team and sewered them overnight. Just awful, awful, awful.

Three words: Leeman for Gilmour.

[TheScorpion]

Coates, then Brad, then Darryl, then Burke, then Feaster, then Button, then Riser.

[Cali Panthers Fan]

^That's my exact list as well.

[FlamesAddiction]

A big failure of the franchise was letting Poile slip away. I am not sure there has been an NHL executive that has done as much as him with so many challenges.

[CSharp]

Treliving was lucky that he had Feaster to pave the way for him to build the team up on it's way up from the bottom. However, Treliving is not perfect either - not the great wizard like Cliff Fletcher, but just enough to satisfy most of the Flames fans and just enough to piss some off.

[Fire of the Phoenix]

Originally Posted by CSharp

Treliving was lucky that he had Feaster to pave the way for him to build the team up on it's way up from the bottom. However, Treliving is not perfect either - not the great wizard like Cliff Fletcher, but just enough to satisfy most of the Flames fans and just enough to piss some off.

What did Feaster leave him? It was basically scorched earth. Some nice peices at the time from sucking in Monahan (though Feaster almost blew that) and Bennett (byproduct of Feaster's reign). Gaudreau was uncertain at the time, small forward with potential. Gio was here I guess, but he wasn't the 1D he is now. Ferland, Brodie I guess. Pretty bleak start for BT and I was willing to give him the benefit of the doubt, a few bottom 5 years in order to build something as the franchise had never really been so shallow on assets. The late 90s came close but there was still good stuff there, Sutter inherited some good foundational peices. BT inherited question marks, draft picks and Giordano.

[Jiri Hrdina]

Originally Posted by Strange Brew

No doubt Treliving wins this round, for the same reason Brodie voted as one of the franchise's all time great defensemen over HOFers and a guy that nearly won a Norris and a Calder while playing here.

I suppose Ward to be considered one of the all time great coaches too.

People have put forth valid opinions for why they have voted. You can seek to understand those perspectives, or you can toss away the views with a simplistic comment like the above.

There are valid arguments on either side. And I didn't even vote for BT.
But I appreciate the positions being put forth on either side, rather than dismissing them altogether.

[timbit]

Originally Posted by FlamesAddiction

A big failure of the franchise was letting Poile slip away. I am not sure there has been an NHL executive that has done as much as him with so many challenges.

I don’t understand how that can be considered a failure.
David left the Flames in 1982 , after 5 years as AGM , to be the GM of Washington and is the longest tenured GM in NHL history.
Cliff Fletcher was in his prime and certainly was not ready to retire or leave in ‘82.

[Poe969]

Originally Posted by Textcritic

The team he built placed first in the Conference for the first time since the SC Championship team, won the Division for the first time since 2006, and registered the second-highest point-total in the history of the franchise.

Yeah, Treliving still has a lot of work to do, but let's at least be honest about his record. If he wins this round—as it appears he will—it will be on merit.

A bunch of guys had a career(or close to it) year at the same time. Then they crapped the bed in the playoffs. That isn't something to be happy about. Sure they won their division and had a great point total...that just doesn't really matter unless there's more success to follow in the playoffs.

Ask someone who won the cup in some random year. Then ask them who had the highest point total in the west that year. I would rather be a team that just gets in and wins the cup than a team that dominates the regular season and is out first round.

If you do want to just cherry pick the one year the Flames did well as a reason to pick him then that should have been done for every one of these. Brodie was picked as the best #7 guy over great players.

I like Treliving but what has he accomplished? The team is no where close to being a contender and isn't in position to do a proper rebuild. He's made a couple of good trades, some bad trades, some terrible signings and some decent signings. Nothing really great and the team is still in limbo.

I guess winning doesn't really matter.

[Textcritic]

Originally Posted by Poe969

A bunch of guys had a career(or close to it) year at the same time. Then they crapped the bed in the playoffs. That isn't something to be happy about. Sure they won their division and had a great point total...that just doesn't really matter unless there's more success to follow in the playoffs.

My post was in response to one specific assertion made by DeluxeMustache:

Originally Posted by DeluxeMoustache

Brad needs some kind of on ice success, any kind, before he is even in the conversation.

A General Manager is certainly deserving of his accolades as much as he is of criticism for his faults, and this in isolation remains a pretty significant accomplishment. To pretend that the 2018–19 regular season did not happen is to rewrite history; I won't do that, and neither should anyone else.

[Displaced Flames fan]

I have Coates a strong 3. Think it goes rapidly downhill from there.

[Strange Brew]

Originally Posted by Textcritic

Do tell. What reason is that?

Not unexpectedly, younger fans aren't as familiar with past GM's or players.

Why do you suppose 10% of the voters in the previous poll believe Brad Treliving is the greatest GM in the history of the franchise? For all the votes Treliving is receiving in round 2, very few posters actually present an analysis of why he has done a better job than those before him.

There is no wrong answer as like any vote it ultimately boils down to a popularity contest.