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Originally Posted by Fighting Banana Slug
I enjoy your take on things Textcritic. I am also interesting in those takeaways, but I think I am coming at those from a completely different angle:
· the inability of the uninitiated to grapple with the deep and meaningful impact of "god" on a person's life and decisions
While the response in the Hamonic thread was rather flippant and dismissive, I wouldn't categorize that as the uninitiated inability to grasp the concept. To be fair to Hamonic, I would think he does hold a closely-held belief that informed his decision. My question to him might be, however, do you think god would protect you? The exchange reminded me more of the eye-roll situation where the winning QB praises god after the big win.
Does god really care about what team wins and loses? Good chance the other QB believes in the same things, if they are playing in the SEC  |
You are right, but within certain—probably most—brands of Western Christian theology nothing ever happens that God did not both foresee and intend. That itself is messed up, and loaded with it's own set of ridiculously irreconcilable problems, but in my experience it is also not something about which most Christians don't worry terribly deeply. The appropriate response for both the winning and the losing quarterback is to acknowledge God for the outcome, since it is the right outcome.
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· the close relationship between apocalypticism and Christianity which is frequently expressed in a deep persecution complex.
This one has always confounded me. If there is an honestly held belief of the apocalypse coming (soon), then why have any cares at all, let alone the persecution complex. They will be saved, end of story.
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So, this gets back to a proper definition of "apocalypticism." This is not merely the adherence to apocalyptic beliefs, it is rather more all-encompassing to describe an entire worldview. An apocalyptic worldview is one that sees the entire universe gripped in a cosmic battle between good and evil in which good will eventually and finally triumph in the end. It holds to ideas of spiritual forces in constant conflict, and apocalypticists will tend to read history and current events through a lens by which everything can be attributed to the influence of these spiritual powers.
I think where you are getting tripped up is in the historical roots of apocalypticism, which stemmed from the experience of persecution. Groups who develop apocalyptic beliefs are those who are marginalized and oppressed, and feel powerless to overcome their own suffering. Within Judaism, the experience of the Babylonian destruction of Jerusalem in the sixth century B.C.E., and the resulting centuries of occupation by foreign powers prompted these feelings of hopelessness, but then also developed a strong view of cosmic forces which were the true source of such control. Amid the powerless to change their circumstances, and as a means to explain the existence of an all-powerful God concerned with their well-being they adopted a belief in their own vindication in "the Last Days." These beliefs were largely adopted by the first Christians.
Apocalypticism is actually the ultimate persecution complex: the world is terrible because of dark, evil forces that threaten believers and are beyond their own control, but they will be vindicated when God finally, in the Last Days returns to destroy all evil. I am sure you have noticed this already in the behaviour and beliefs of modern North American Christians, who are easily the most privileged religious groups in the Western world. And yet, most Christians also view their circumstances as dire; they see the world as a debauched and terrible place that is only getting worse; they imagine their own retribution as a product of Christ's return in the Last Days—a time when everything will be set to rights.
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· the consequences of penal substitutionary atonement in Christian theology, and the direct connection made to a potentially dangerous culture of enablement through unconditional forgiveness
Dangerous culture indeed, which I agree is fostered by atonement and unconditional forgiveness. This is the part as an atheist which worries me the most. It is one thing to say that most christians are good people that have their own personal beliefs that harm no one. But I don't think it is an accident that some of the terrible abuses of children and subsequent cover up come out of this system of belief.
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You have no argument from me.
