Calgary Flames All Time Roster - #6 Defenseman

[Bingo]

So some details ...

1. Calgary players only
2. I'll look at games played, production and PPG to list options.
3. My cut off won't effect options as I'll go deeper than required
4. I'll label them by rank (3rd line LW) but don't select the player that matches that role the best, pick the best player.

Day to Day

We elect a position, say 2nd line RW, remove that name and do the 3rd line RW the next day.

I'll post a summary as we go along.

Calgary Flames All Time Roster

Gary Roberts - Joe Nieuwendyk - Jarome Iginla
Johnny Gaudreau - Doug Gilmour - Theo Fleury
Matthew Tkachuk - Sean Monahan - Lanny McDonald
Alex Tanguay - Joel Otto - Joe Mullen
Hakan Loob - Kent Nilsson

Al MacInnis - Mark Giordano
Gary Suter - Robyn Regehr
Paul Reinhart - D6
D7

Miikka Kiprusoff
Mike Vernon
G3

[getbak]

All the posts in the previous threads have convinced me to go with Sarge here. RIP.

[Erick Estrada]

Really tough not to pick Sarge but the Flames were one of the shorter stops of his career so I went with Brodie who has been a fixture in the top 4 for a decade.

[Bingo]

I certainly take tenure into account, but at some point impact trumps the short tenure, and that's certainly the case with McCrimmon.

Just a beast.

Wish they didn't trade him as early as they did ... not that David Harlock wasn't an all time Flames great!

Really interesting how much Macoun and Brodie's numbers line up.

[Jacks]

Macoun is my choice from here out.
Long tenure
Excellent defensively
Good numbers, comparable or better than Sarge


Overall McCrimmon was a better player but he was here for less than half of the time.

[Eric Vail]

Brodie has been here for a long time, but he hasn't distinguished himself as great in any way. He has played well with Gio on the first pairing, but away from him he is not nearly as good. He has had off seasons and at times has worn the goat horns. He has never played in an all star game or been in serious consideration for a major award. He has been a good Flame, but certainly not great. The team during his time has mostly been a below average one missing the playoffs five times and only winning one playoff round in seven seasons prior to this one.

McCrimmon was one of the NHL's best throughout his career including his time with the Flames. He had an incredible plus minus and was an NHL second team all star, won the league's top plus minus award and played in the NHL all star game. He was a huge part of the Flames success during his time, which included their only Stanley Cup.

McCrimmon is clearly the choice here.

[Table 5]

Originally Posted by Erick Estrada

Really tough not to pick Sarge but the Flames were one of the shorter stops of his career so I went with Brodie who has been a fixture in the top 4 for a decade.

Not really though. After the Flyers, the Flames were the team he played the most games for.

[Haplo]

Brodie was in serious consideration for the 2016 World Cup team so I think it's a stretch to say that "he hasn't distinguished himself as great in any way." He was a beast for a couple of seasons around that time.

[dino7c]

Jaybo is criminally under rated on here. Good enough for world cups/Olympics as part of the best D ever assembled. Not good enough for Flames fans. Only high end UFA that ever came here and we treated him like poop

[SeanCharles]

Originally Posted by dino7c

Jaybo is criminally under rated on here. Good enough for world cups/Olympics as part of the best D ever assembled. Not good enough for Flames fans. Only high end UFA that ever came here and we treated him like poop

I think a lot of guys are being overlooked.

[JohnnyB]

I really like Brodie, and I agree that there are times when his play has been something pretty special, but I don't see him as one of the best to ever play for the Flames. I see him as like Leopold, who was a key player, a big part of the Flames and had some excellent stretches, but who was also clearly not on quite the same level as his partner.

[SuperMatt18]

Originally Posted by Bingo

I certainly take tenure into account, but at some point impact trumps the short tenure, and that's certainly the case with McCrimmon.

Just a beast.

Wish they didn't trade him as early as they did ... not that David Harlock wasn't an all time Flames great!

Really interesting how much Macoun and Brodie's numbers line up.

This is where I am...but with Dion Phaneuf.

The tenure was short, but his first 3 seasons were phenomenal.

Rookie Year: 20 goals, 49 points - Calder Finalist & 8th in Norris voting
2nd Year: 17 goals, 50 points - 6th in Norris Voting
3rd Year: 17 goals, 60 points - 1st team NHL All-Star, 2nd in Norris voting

It's too bad that injuries really took away from his style of play and limited his skating and explosiveness. But up until that point his first three seasons were remarkable for the Flames and his peak in the Flames uniform is the highest of any of the remaining names on this list.

Only 7 Flames players all-time have ever been named to the end of season NHL 1st-Team all-star teams.

Forwards:
Iginla - 3x
Loob - 1x
Mullen - 1x

Macinnis - 2x
Giordano - 1x
Phaneuf - 1x

Kipper - 1x

The other 6 are all on the all time roster, and IMO Phaneuf deserves it too.

[Strange Brew]

There is actually an argument for Phaneuf, which surprised me. I went with Sarge although wanted to go with a player who has longer tenure. A guy like Brodie just isn’t good enough, relatively appealing for me to give him a vote.

If you look at McCrimmon’s career, he played on many teams. He was with Philly the longest but won his Cup with Calgary. He’s as much a Flame as any other team IMO so that did it for me. Defines dependability.

[agulati]

Went with Phaneuf for #6 spot. His tenure was shorter than some on this list, but he was a very very good player during those few years.

[looooob]

Originally Posted by dino7c

Jaybo is criminally under rated on here. Good enough for world cups/Olympics as part of the best D ever assembled. Not good enough for Flames fans. Only high end UFA that ever came here and we treated him like poop

I agree some folks don't give him a fair shake, but this is about a players Flames tenure...and while he was on best on best team canada's before and after he was a Flame, he didn't while he was a Flame


his fault?
Sutter's?
Kevin Lowe's?


either way I feel like we can agree he was both underappreciated but also under performed here


as I pointed out yesterday all of Phaneuf (4 times), McCrimmon (twice), Hamilton (twice), Housley (twice), Macoun and Brodie (once each) received Norris trophy votes as a Flame. yes voters can be idiots, yes this isn't a perfect measure but I don't think not voting for Bouwmeester (zero) is the same as not liking him


Macoun and Brodie were here far longer, McCrimmon and Phaneuf (and probably Housley) had higher peak performance (as a Flame), that's fair isn't it?

[ForeverFlameFan]

I don't know where the Flames would be without Brodie in their top 4. I went with Brodie, arguably our best playoff defenseman that played last decade.

[boogerz]

Originally Posted by SuperMatt18

This is where I am...but with Dion Phaneuf.

The tenure was short, but his first 3 seasons were phenomenal.

Rookie Year: 20 goals, 49 points - Calder Finalist & 8th in Norris voting
2nd Year: 17 goals, 50 points - 6th in Norris Voting
3rd Year: 17 goals, 60 points - 1st team NHL All-Star, 2nd in Norris voting

It's too bad that injuries really took away from his style of play and limited his skating and explosiveness. But up until that point his first three seasons were remarkable for the Flames and his peak in the Flames uniform is the highest of any of the remaining names on this list.

[snip]


The other 6 are all on the all time roster, and IMO Phaneuf deserves it too.

I have Phaneuf penciled in for 7th or 8th on the Flames all-time list...behind Macoun, but slightly ahead of Housley.



The knock against Phaneuf's AST and Norris finish is that he was in a transition period. In his big years (06-07 and 07-08), the old guard (e.g. Pronger, Neidermayer, Leetch, Blake, Chelios, MacInnis) were old and either close to retiring or recently retired, and the next guard (e.g. Karlsson, Weber, Suter, Keith, Doughty) were entering the league or just starting to become great.


Is McCrimmon's 2nd team AST finish, where he finished behind prime Bourque and Stevens, but ahead of Chelios, McInnis, Murphy, Coffey worth more than Phaneuf's 1st team AST finish, where he was behind Lidstrom, but ahead of Chara, Gonchar, Green, and almost finished Pronger/Neidermayer? I'd argue that it is based on their respective competition.


Also, when you add in McCrimmon's contributions to the cup-winning team I think he gets the edge on Phaneuf.

[dino7c]

Originally Posted by SeanCharles

I think a lot of guys are being overlooked.

Jaybo has two votes! A guy selected by team Canada for the greatest D ever assembled at the Olympics and selected again for the world cup (not only selected but played big minutes) People are pumping Brodie's tires for being considered!

Jay Feaster you Moron!

[Eric Vail]

Originally Posted by ForeverFlameFan

I don't know where the Flames would be without Brodie in their top 4. I went with Brodie, arguably our best playoff defenseman that played last decade.

They would have missed the playoffs almost every year and they would have won almost zero playoff series.

[Haplo]

Originally Posted by dino7c

Jaybo has two votes! A guy selected by team Canada for the greatest D ever assembled at the Olympics and selected again for the world cup (not only selected but played big minutes) People are pumping Brodie's tires for being considered!

Jay Feaster you Moron!

He wasn't that player while on the Flames though (he might have been if he had been used right), which is the point of the voting right? Brodie has had much better seasons on the Flames than JayBo had.