Calgary Flames All Time Roster - #5 Defenseman

[boogerz]

Originally Posted by FBI

Why is housley getting so few votes? Did he not have very many games played as a Flame?

I never saw Reinhart play, but if we're going off legacy it sounds like he was Housley with slightly better defense.

Housley should be getting more love than he does though. His defensive issues are blown out of proportion

[looooob]

Ok here are some additional thoughts and numbers that I had put together. I chose 7 dmen for shortlisting- you can argue if I picked the right seven- possibly I should have taken Jaybo over Dougie, but I don't think that would change much. I decided to look at the following parameters (realizing all of them have limits due to different eras, teams they played on etc) which are (all of these are AS A FLAME- I recognize that many of these guys - including HOFer Housley, Sarge, Phaneuf, Macoun down the list had distinguished 1000 game careers) games played, points, plus/minus, playoff games played, allstar team selections and Norris voting. In each instance if the number is bold they are the leader in that category. players listed in order of Flames games played


TJ Brodie 634 /266/ 14/ 20 /0/ 1 (peak 18th)
A current player who gets a bit of a bad rap sometimes he has been a top 4 d at worst for a long time here and is climbing way up the Flames games played list- its not his fault we've needed to suffer watching him try and be Al MacInnis on the PP. Not a huge name or reputation league wide, but a good player for sure


Jamie Macoun 586/ 246/ 93/ 84/ 0/ 1 (peak 10th)
Ok - some people who saw both play are going to call me nuts but there is actually a lot similar between Brodie and Macoun. Both have tenure. Both were "Robin" to Macinnis/Giordano's "Batman" . Macoun all time leader of this group in playoff games (and overall games) and 2nd in plus minus. Like Brodie garnered Norris votes in one single season. On the taxi squad of the 1991 Canada cup team. Both Brodie and Macoun are solid top 4s more famous in Calgary than elsewhere and did lots of things well. I would have both in the mix for #7


Paul Reinhart 438/ 398/ 17/ 76/ 0 / 1(7)
Third player in a row to have registered a single season of Norris voting. This guy came on the scene out of the famous 79 draft and was an original Calgary Flame, already making the best on best Canada cup team by 1981 (Paul Reinhart spoiler- he only played two games due to injury), is the highest scorer (by over 100 points) of the names remaining and has been pointed out is 2nd all time in Flames playoff scoring (yes ahead of Fleury, Nieuwendyk, Mullen, Lanny, Nilsson, Suter, Iginla, Otto, Roberts etc etc). ok a bit of a rover- he could drive you nuts, and injuries took a toll. Flames (as they would go on to do with Mullen and many others in years to come) gave up on him for too little too soon, and he almost sunk them in 89. He gets my vote here


Dion Phaneuf 378/ 228/ 19/ 25/ 1 (1st team allstar)/ 4 (2nd)
Ok Dion. he doesn't need an explanation. everyone knows him. If we are looking for peak performance he's likely your guy. he was a first team allstar and (reputation or not) had 4 seasons with Norris votes, peaking at 2nd. it ended poorly we know that. has to be in the mix for the 7th


Phil Housley 328/ 238/ 2/ 7/ 0/ 2(10)
he's generating some discussion. He is a HOFer. he is a bit polarizing, was a good player (at least first time through, maybe both times) even if an underwhelming return for MacInnis. his first tenure- maybe I'm not giving him enough credit- was a time where I was out of town and not following the Flames daily- in the shortened season he and Fleury put up numbers. By his 2nd go round I was here and I felt I was watching a guy (admittedly on a sad sack team) going through the paces. I'm not voting for him as I don't think I see him standing out as best in any regard. Twice received Norris votes


Dougie Hamilton 245 137 -2 4 0 2 (9)
not much to say here . we all know Dougie. will point out 2 seasons as a Flame he received Norris votes peaking at 9th


Brad McCrimmon 231 83 109 37 1 (2nd team) 2 (4th)
Ok Sarge. short tenure (a la Gilmour) but lets review. He was a Flame for 3 seasons. where did they finish in the league those 3 seasons? 1st. 1st. 2nd. and a cup. a 2nd team allstar (along with his young protegee Suter) his first year here, follows that up with a top 6 Norris voting the next year. only he and Dion amongst the remaining were year end allstars as Flames and again only Dion exceeded him in the Norris table. while its a stat that has its issues, lets remind ourselves Sarge played tough minutes. Look ...at...that..plus/minus.. I'm voting for him next

[Jiri Hrdina]

Originally Posted by SeanCharles

Brodie is not underappreciated around here.

It's just there are half of us that love him and think he is a big part of Gio's success and the other half who think he a good top 4 dman but isn't the reason the pairing is so dominant.

Gio-Andersson pairing looked pretty solid when together as well.

Brodie is like Bennett in that they are polarizing players who cause a divide in the fanbase. I think Hamonic and Hanifin and even Gaudreau are viewed in a similar vein.

They arent like Gio, Lindholm, Tkachuk and Andersson where they are revered by everyone in the fanbase.

I don't think someone not voting for Brodie means he's underappreciated - it just means he's not in the top 5 of all time dmen for this club. Which is entirely reasonable.

[David Struch]

What a great shot of Lanny & Phil the Thrill at the HOF

https://www.ontheforecheck.com/2015/...-predators-nhl

[EastCoastFlamesFan]

Originally Posted by looooob

Ok here are some additional thoughts and numbers that I had put together. I chose 7 dmen for shortlisting- you can argue if I picked the right seven- possibly I should have taken Jaybo over Dougie, but I don't think that would change much. I decided to look at the following parameters (realizing all of them have limits due to different eras, teams they played on etc) which are (all of these are AS A FLAME- I recognize that many of these guys - including HOFer Housley, Sarge, Phaneuf, Macoun down the list had distinguished 1000 game careers) games played, points, plus/minus, playoff games played, allstar team selections and Norris voting. In each instance if the number is bold they are the leader in that category. players listed in order of Flames games played


TJ Brodie 634 /266/ 14/ 20 /0/ 1 (peak 18th)
A current player who gets a bit of a bad rap sometimes he has been a top 4 d at worst for a long time here and is climbing way up the Flames games played list- its not his fault we've needed to suffer watching him try and be Al MacInnis on the PP. Not a huge name or reputation league wide, but a good player for sure


Jamie Macoun 586/ 246/ 93/ 84/ 0/ 1 (peak 10th)
Ok - some people who saw both play are going to call me nuts but there is actually a lot similar between Brodie and Macoun. Both have tenure. Both were "Robin" to Macinnis/Giordano's "Batman" . Macoun all time leader of this group in playoff games (and overall games) and 2nd in plus minus. Like Brodie garnered Norris votes in one single season. On the taxi squad of the 1991 Canada cup team. Both Brodie and Macoun are solid top 4s more famous in Calgary than elsewhere and did lots of things well. I would have both in the mix for #7


Paul Reinhart 438/ 398/ 17/ 76/ 0 / 1(7)
Third player in a row to have registered a single season of Norris voting. This guy came on the scene out of the famous 79 draft and was an original Calgary Flame, already making the best on best Canada cup team by 1981 (Paul Reinhart spoiler- he only played two games due to injury), is the highest scorer (by over 100 points) of the names remaining and has been pointed out is 2nd all time in Flames playoff scoring (yes ahead of Fleury, Nieuwendyk, Mullen, Lanny, Nilsson, Suter, Iginla, Otto, Roberts etc etc). ok a bit of a rover- he could drive you nuts, and injuries took a toll. Flames (as they would go on to do with Mullen and many others in years to come) gave up on him for too little too soon, and he almost sunk them in 89. He gets my vote here


Dion Phaneuf 378/ 228/ 19/ 25/ 1 (1st team allstar)/ 4 (2nd)
Ok Dion. he doesn't need an explanation. everyone knows him. If we are looking for peak performance he's likely your guy. he was a first team allstar and (reputation or not) had 4 seasons with Norris votes, peaking at 2nd. it ended poorly we know that. has to be in the mix for the 7th


Phil Housley 328/ 238/ 2/ 7/ 0/ 2(10)
he's generating some discussion. He is a HOFer. he is a bit polarizing, was a good player (at least first time through, maybe both times) even if an underwhelming return for MacInnis. his first tenure- maybe I'm not giving him enough credit- was a time where I was out of town and not following the Flames daily- in the shortened season he and Fleury put up numbers. By his 2nd go round I was here and I felt I was watching a guy (admittedly on a sad sack team) going through the paces. I'm not voting for him as I don't think I see him standing out as best in any regard. Twice received Norris votes


Dougie Hamilton 245 137 -2 4 0 2 (9)
not much to say here . we all know Dougie. will point out 2 seasons as a Flame he received Norris votes peaking at 9th


Brad McCrimmon 231 83 109 37 1 (2nd team) 2 (4th)
Ok Sarge. short tenure (a la Gilmour) but lets review. He was a Flame for 3 seasons. where did they finish in the league those 3 seasons? 1st. 1st. 2nd. and a cup. a 2nd team allstar (along with his young protegee Suter) his first year here, follows that up with a top 6 Norris voting the next year. only he and Dion amongst the remaining were year end allstars as Flames and again only Dion exceeded him in the Norris table. while its a stat that has its issues, lets remind ourselves Sarge played tough minutes. Look ...at...that..plus/minus.. I'm voting for him next

Super spot on here Loooooooooob. I went with Reinhart here as well. Shows you how much depth we had back then. Agree 100 percent that management gave up on him too early as he had two more productive, yet injury riddled, seasons with Vancouver. And yep, he killed us in the '89 series--had to think he had a chip on his shoulder. Also, wow, he had some pretty impressive playoff totals for his career: 83-23-54-77--I didn't realize that either.

I'm torn between Beast and Brodie for the final spot.

[Mass_nerder]

Voted Brodie, but it's definitely recency bias.
I'm barely old enough to remember Reinhardt, Housely, McCrimmon.

[united]

Same as last round with a coinflip between Sarge and Reinhart landing on Sarge.

[Gaudreau is a Ninja]

Reinhart for me

[powderjunkie]

Originally Posted by Plett25

TJ Brodie is half of the best D pairing the Flames have ever had. Gio has consistently been Norris calibre with Brodie, not so much without him.

He's more comfortable and better as RD, but he is serviceable as LD.

I think he's under appreciated around here.

Suter-MacInnis?

I like Brodie, and he's probably my #6 (after Reinhart), but this is silly recency bias.

[Flashpoint]

“Phil the Thrill” wasn’t a compliment.

He was a forward playing defense. Imagine Johnny back there.

I take Macoun (2 time allstar), Mcrimmon, and Reinhart over him easily.

[Roof-Daddy]

Ugh hopefully none of the Reinhart voters are going to put Dion in the top 7 all time. He doesn't belong there IMO

[ricardodw]

Originally Posted by SeanCharles

Brodie is not underappreciated around here.

It's just there are half of us that love him and think he is a big part of Gio's success and the other half who think he a good top 4 dman but isn't the reason the pairing is so dominant.

Gio-Andersson pairing looked pretty solid when together as well.

Brodie is like Bennett in that they are polarizing players who cause a divide in the fanbase. I think Hamonic and Hanifin and even Gaudreau are viewed in a similar vein.

They arent like Gio, Lindholm, Tkachuk and Andersson where they are revered by everyone in the fanbase.

Brodie had his best season when Gio got hurt and he carried the team. He played better that year than any Flame defense man this century. After Gio (who was in contention for the Norris finished 6th in the voting missing the stretch run quarter of the season) was hurt there was absolutely no logical way for the Flames to make the playoffs. Brodie was magnificent

Sportswriters need at least 5 years to learn who plays defense for the Flames so Brodie's heroics were ignored by the league.

[FireGilbert]

I went with Reinhart. I never saw him play but his stats are very impressive. Also I leaned yesterday he is one of only 3 Flames dmen to make a best on best Team Canada.

Regarding Brodie, I agree with those saying he is criminally underrated around here and I’ll be strongly considering him for slots 6 and 7.. The 2015 season after losing Gio was particularly impressive. There is a lot of love for Ferland’s performance against Vancouver but I’d argue Brodie was the series MVP.

[looooob]

Its interesting that the top 5 thus far are all 'homegrown' but in different ways


1. High picks from Calgary and Atlanta (MacInnis, Reinhart)
2. Drafted elsewhere but traded before making his debut (Regehr)
3. Very late draft out of college (Suter)
4. Where did he come from ? Send him to Russia! (Gio)


with Brodie,Macoun and Phaneuf all still in the mix its conceivable the whole blueline could go in this direction (although not where my next vote is going)

[timbit]

Reinhart was a very good player before the back injuries set him back. Not sure how many are aware but he was played a lot at forward , as well as D, in his first few seasons.

[blender]

Sarge is my lock for D6.
Lots of other great DMen as well. Embarrassment of riches.

[dino7c]

Originally Posted by boogerz

I never saw Reinhart play, but if we're going off legacy it sounds like he was Housley with slightly better defense.

Housley should be getting more love than he does though. His defensive issues are blown out of proportion

I always took Phil the Thrill in my hockey pool and everyone laughed at me for being a Flames homer but he was always at or near the top player in the round I picked him

[looooob]

Originally Posted by timbit

Reinhart was a very good player before the back injuries set him back. Not sure how many are aware but he was played a lot at forward , as well as D, in his first few seasons.

watched an 87-88 Flames - Oiler playoff series game the other night (spoiler that series did not end well for the Flames)


given that the Flames had Gary Suter and Al MacInnis on the backend, Paul Reinhart (on a team that had 4 40 goal scorers and the following forwards: Mullen, Loob, Bullard, Nieuwendyk, Tonelli, Roberts, Otto, Lanny etc) played FORWARD ON THE PP. (now you could argue ok sure he played forward because he was an adventure on d- fine, but point is nowadays you see F playing the point on the PP, here was a defenceman taking playing time away from hall of famer forwards on the PP!)
(another fun fact from that game- my new favorite line is Gary Roberts CENTERING Tonelli and Lanny)

[timbit]

Originally Posted by looooob

watched an 87-88 Flames - Oiler playoff series game the other night (spoiler that series did not end well for the Flames)


given that the Flames had Gary Suter and Al MacInnis on the backend, Paul Reinhart (on a team that had 4 40 goal scorers and the following forwards: Mullen, Loob, Bullard, Nieuwendyk, Tonelli, Roberts, Otto, Lanny etc) played FORWARD ON THE PP. (now you could argue ok sure he played forward because he was an adventure on d- fine, but point is nowadays you see F playing the point on the PP, here was a defenceman taking playing time away from hall of famer forwards on the PP!)
(another fun fact from that game- my new favorite line is Gary Roberts CENTERING Tonelli and Lanny)

I am a little confused as to your point, however, he definitely played a lot of forward 5v5 in his first 6 seasons. Primarily, at center.

[looooob]

ok sorry for the confusion, certainly not trying to correct your point, I definitely agree he played Center some in his first few years , my recollection (although it would not trump yours ) is he was still primarily a D more than a C (most of the time anyways)even in those years



my point (that I"m sure I mangled ) is by 87-88 while he was clearly primarily a D by then the Flames had pretty much a world class pair of D (2/20)manning the point on the PP. Reinhart was skilled enough that he was given powerplay time at forward (despite a very deep group of forwards too). Anyways I think / hope I'm supporting and not arguing your point. he was skilled enough to play anywhere