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Old 11-22-2017, 10:51 PM   #181
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I live in an acreage community just outside of Lethbridge, the biggest/most expensive houses are all owned by dentists, I think they can take a 8.5% hit and still avoid the foodbank
My cousin works for a dentist. Her boss flew to Edmonton in a private jet with a few other dentists for the Oilers home opener. If they can afford to do that they shouldn't be laying off staff after such a small cut in fees.
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Old 11-22-2017, 11:02 PM   #182
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My cousin works for a dentist. Her boss flew to Edmonton in a private jet with a few other dentists for the Oilers home opener. If they can afford to do that they shouldn't be laying off staff after such a small cut in fees.
Fees dentists charge for services have not changed as a result of this bill.

Fees your insurance company pay likely have. Whether that encourages people to shop for lower prices and for dentists to lower prices remains to be seen.
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Old 11-22-2017, 11:07 PM   #183
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Fees dentists charge for services have not changed as a result of this bill.

Fees your insurance company pay likely have. Whether that encourages people to shop for lower prices and for dentists to lower prices remains to be seen.
Yeah, I know that. I'm just saying dentists shouldn't be crying poor if they end up lowering prices.
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Old 11-23-2017, 12:27 AM   #184
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Fees dentists charge for services have not changed as a result of this bill.

Fees your insurance company pay likely have. Whether that encourages people to shop for lower prices and for dentists to lower prices remains to be seen.
This is premature, on each side.

How do fees change that fast? How do what insurance companies pay change that fast?

They don't change that fast.
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Old 11-23-2017, 01:48 AM   #185
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Fees dentists charge for services have not changed as a result of this bill.

Fees your insurance company pay likely have. Whether that encourages people to shop for lower prices and for dentists to lower prices remains to be seen.
So what will probably happen is that the insurance providers now have justification to lower the amount that they will cover for a procedure, resulting in more out of pocket expenses for the patient.


Thanks NDP...
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Old 11-23-2017, 07:38 AM   #186
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So what will probably happen is that the insurance providers now have justification to lower the amount that they will cover for a procedure, resulting in more out of pocket expenses for the patient.


Thanks NDP...
Dont worry, when Randy and the UPC get into power, there will be more money for everyone including dentists, patients, and insurance companies.
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Old 11-23-2017, 07:55 AM   #187
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This is premature, on each side.

How do fees change that fast? How do what insurance companies pay change that fast?

They don't change that fast.
they do - insurance companies have a big matrix of dental procedure codes and the allowable fee in each province. the fees change in one province, the matrix is updated and bam - claims are paid on the new fee guide.

all the fee guide does is make it easier to comparasion shop as presumably you can call a dentist and ask where they charge relative to the fee guide. of course the variation will ultimately vary by procedure code.

it will be interesting to see if dentists ultimately start lowering their fees to something closer to the fee guide.
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Old 11-23-2017, 07:57 AM   #188
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This is premature, on each side.

How do fees change that fast? How do what insurance companies pay change that fast?

They don't change that fast.
I meant there was no requirement to change fees as a result of the bill in my first statement.

Insurance will adopt for 2018 or 2019 not sure which but the lowering of payouts will occur quite quickly. The supply / demand shift for dentists I agree will be slow and we don't know what will happen.
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Old 11-23-2017, 08:25 AM   #189
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I have pretty good teeth and while I know my hygienist well as she's been the same one for years I barely know the dentist, heck I can barely remember what he looks like seeing I only see him once a year for about five minutes while he does a quick check of my teeth. I guess if you have bad teeth or issues you get to know these guys better but it sure sounds like a good gig compared to say a doctor where you have to interact with every patient.
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Old 11-23-2017, 08:28 AM   #190
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it will be interesting to see if dentists ultimately start lowering their fees to something closer to the fee guide.
I suppose it depends if they will take a page out of the national phone carriers book and collude or if a large enough portion will break off and start charging less forcing others to follow suit.
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Old 11-23-2017, 08:54 AM   #191
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Im studying to be a dentist and i have to agree. The prices are ridiculous. Hopefully they go down.
but not too much. it's so friggen expensive to operate a practice and purchase equipment and supplies.
If you're not yet aware of that, you will be.

Dentists make a fair living, (as they should) but they're not the bandits many of you think they are.
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Old 11-23-2017, 11:14 AM   #192
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but not too much. it's so friggen expensive to operate a practice and purchase equipment and supplies.
If you're not yet aware of that, you will be.

Dentists make a fair living, (as they should) but they're not the bandits many of you think they are.
A pro-dentite on the internet .... you are like a unicorn!!

Believe it or not the average overhead of a dental office in Alberta is 65 percent. This is not a number thrown out by the association, this comes from a major accounting firm. Keep in mind as well, that this is for the entire province with no distinction between location of practice (city vs. town). This number does not include any wages/dividends/bonuses paid to the dentist of their spouse.
I would guess that the average overhead in a city like Calgary is probably closer to 70 percent.

I offer up those numbers to just give an idea of what an 8.5 percent reduction in fees would mean. Assuming no changes in wages, number of employees, rent, fixed costs etc, an 8.5 percent reduction in fees is a 24.3 percent reduction in income (8.5/35). That is a big hit to take considering that most offices have seen a decrease in revenue due to the economic downturn.

Now, I'm not on here looking for sympathy. I'm just pointing out some numbers to consider.

The point about insurance reimbursement is a major one. Jan 1/2018 you can guarantee that the insurance companies will drop their reimbursement level to the published 2018 fee guide. If dentists are unable to do the same due to the economic reality of running a business, patients with insurance are the ones who lose.
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Old 11-23-2017, 11:17 AM   #193
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I'm not an anti-dentite or anything, but ask yourself when was the last time you saw a dentist in her 60s. They're long retired by then.
You can say the same thing about teachers, Telus employees, police officers, nurses, government employees, engineers .... the list goes on and on. Not a real valid argument.
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Old 11-23-2017, 12:00 PM   #194
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So why is it dental costs are so much higher in Alberta? I don't understand why costs are higher, if that is the excuse. How is BC able to provide these services for less than half the cost? BC is not typically thought of as a low cost jurisdiction to operate in. I understand no one likes having their profits cut into, but the chart below shows something is out of wack in Alberta.
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Old 11-23-2017, 12:11 PM   #195
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So why is it dental costs are so much higher in Alberta? I don't understand why costs are higher, if that is the excuse. How is BC able to provide these services for less than half the cost? BC is not typically thought of as a low cost jurisdiction to operate in. I understand no one likes having their profits cut into, but the chart below shows something is out of wack in Alberta.
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I know for us in Optometry the amount we have to pay our receptionists are much higher than in other jurisdictions. Same with the office Manager and/or Practice Manager. This was mostly due to Oil/Gas offering much better wages.
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Old 11-23-2017, 12:22 PM   #196
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So why is it dental costs are so much higher in Alberta? I don't understand why costs are higher, if that is the excuse. How is BC able to provide these services for less than half the cost? BC is not typically thought of as a low cost jurisdiction to operate in. I understand no one likes having their profits cut into, but the chart below shows something is out of wack in Alberta.
Spoiler!
The main one is wages. I'm not going to get into actual numbers but the wages for hygienists in Alberta are likely around 20/hr more in Alberta than in BC and Ontario. Alberta has some other unique costs for infection control that don't exist in other provinces. Basically, in Alberta, dental offices are held to a much higher standard for sterilization and infection control than other provinces ... at a significant expense.

As well, the fee guide structure in BC (and possibly elsewhere, just don't have direct knowledge) will have the preventive procedures (cleanings, exams) priced much less to get people in the office, but the restorative procedures (fillings, crowns, etc) would be much more expensive than other provinces. There is some anecdotal evidence that this has led to overtreatment of dental patients in BC.

Dentistry is expensive to receive and deliver, no doubt about it. I urge everyone to have a discussion with their dentist if they have any concerns about this.
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Old 11-23-2017, 12:39 PM   #197
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You can say the same thing about teachers, Telus employees, police officers, nurses, government employees...
Oh but I do.
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Old 11-23-2017, 01:40 PM   #198
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I would also note that it seems every time I go into the dentists office, they seemingly have some new piece of equipment that makes the process a little more enjoyable
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Old 11-23-2017, 01:47 PM   #199
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I would also note that it seems every time I go into the dentists office, they seemingly have some new piece of equipment that makes the process a little more enjoyable
Ummm.....dude, I dont know what 'enjoyable equipment' they have, but are you sure thats the Dentist's office?
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Old 11-23-2017, 02:22 PM   #200
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Ummm.....dude, I dont know what 'enjoyable equipment' they have, but are you sure thats the Dentist's office?
Minty fluoride ball gags aren't part of your dental experience? You're missing out.
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