[PGT] Hawks 5 Flames 1

[Samonadreau]

It's wild that it took about 20 games and a period for Sutter to realize Lucic on the 2nd line may not be a good idea.

[dissentowner]

Originally Posted by jar_e

This team is woefully unprepared for games.

Paging GioPM, he will tell you how this team is always prepared to start games.

[CGY12]

Originally Posted by AFireInside

It's irrelevant who drives the play. You can't expect Lindholm to do much with a 2nd and 3rd liner.

The Oilers tried that with McDavid and it didn't work either. We have two glaring holes in our top 6. We aren't going to do anything with Dube on the top line & Lucic on the 2nd.

Looks like Lucic is back on the 4th now we need to figure out the top line.

Its definitely relevant. Lindholm can't do much because theirs nobody to make it easier for him through the neutral zone and to gain the zone, because that isn't a strength of his. In my opinion this is a necessity for your top line to be a Stanley cup contender. Name me a team that's won a cup in the last 10 years that hasn't had that? Sutter has even acknowledged how critical the centre ice position is to win in the playoffs, because that position can dictate so much in all 3 zones.

I'm not comparing anything to the Oilers. They have that type of centre but are a tire fire everywhere else.

[Aarongavey]

Feels like old times under Brent Sutter. With 33 games left the Flames only have to play at about a .667 clip (winning 2 out of every 3 games) to make the playoffs.

[sonq]

Welp, that was... bad. Zero puck luck, not much jump (except Huberdeau and Pelts looked fine). Why is there such a drastic change in their performance against bottom dwellers vs top teams?

They were obviously frustrated, which is a good sign, as in they actually care. For comparison, the Blues look like they have given up already, zero emotion. So yeah, the one person who suggested that this was a loss trying to get the coach fired, nah. That's just stupid.

Good for Pelletier getting more ice time, I don't think we will see him starting on the 4th tonight, though he clicks well with Duehr.
I did expect a loss but not as bad as this one. I do expect a big win today, which is pretty much a must win. We have to be grateful that neither Avs or Blues couldn't take care of business either, Wild had a hard time with Philly also. Basically the one team that I thought would lose (Preds), won. This round showed the parity in the league.
As much as I would like wallow in embarrasment, I'm gonna focus on the positives (OOT, Pelts) and not gonna let this loss ruin my Friday. Be ####### better tonight. GFG

[AFireInside]

Originally Posted by CGY12

Its definitely relevant. Lindholm can't do much because theirs nobody to make it easier for him through the neutral zone and to gain the zone, because that isn't a strength of his. In my opinion this is a necessity for your top line to be a Stanley cup contender. Name me a team that's won a cup in the last 10 years that hasn't had that? Sutter has even acknowledged how critical the centre ice position is to win in the playoffs, because that position can dictate so much in all 3 zones.

I'm not comparing anything to the Oilers. They have that type of centre but are a tire fire everywhere else.

That's what I said he can't do anything because he has no one.

It worked very well with Lindholm being the responsible two way center allowing his forwards to drive the play. That's who he is, he's fine but he needs another winger and Dube isn't it.

[Northendzone]

there continues to be little evidence that this team could win 4 out of 7 games.

this is so frustrating and disappointing after the season they had last year.

[Joborule]

Originally Posted by AFireInside

It's irrelevant who drives the play. You can't expect Lindholm to do much with a 2nd and 3rd liner.

The Oilers tried that with McDavid and it didn't work either. We have two glaring holes in our top 6. We aren't going to do anything with Dube on the top line & Lucic on the 2nd.

Looks like Lucic is back on the 4th now we need to figure out the top line.

I think getting Huby back with Lindholm should be explored, but I don't think it'll work to have Toffoli on the line. For it to be effective, it'll need some speed on the right hand side. This is asking a lot for a rookie that has only played three games so far, but perhaps Pelts should be the 3rd player on the line?

This team has no reliable scoring line right now. The secondary scoring isn't terrible statistically this season (despite the awful shooting percentage), but but he lack of top end production 5 v 5 and on the PP is killing this team. They got to find a combination that can at least score a goal or two night in, night out.

[Flamesfan05]

Team wins with top end talent and the PP

Can’t win grinding with Coleman and Lewis.

The Flames probably have the weakest top line if they even have one

[GS Skier]

They lost twice to the two worst teams in the league. When all you can do is tie and hope for a miracle in OT against the very worst tanking teams then you have have major problems. If you loose one defender (Tanev) and suddenly "can't win"?!? it's time to have a field day at the trade deadline and move some of the defensemen who apparantly can't play with out one guy. Andersson would fetch a good return among others and our defense isn't doing us any good.

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by dissentowner

Paging GioPM, he will tell you how this team is always prepared to start games.

Never said always. I said in most games the start is not the issue. It’s not taking advantage of the good start and then giving up huge 10 bell opportunities that end up in the net, after dominating for, say 5 minutes. And it’s absolutely true.

[Huntingwhale]

Absolutely horrid game. Was embarrassed I put this on the TV in my house. Only positive was Huberdeau's goal was super nice. Everything else...woof. Games like this are why people are occasionally justified in freaking out after losses.

LOL at the coach on fan960 who said recently he gets annoyed when fans say the team plays differently in front of Markstrom and it's not true. Not pinning the entire loss on him, but clear as day the team DOES in fact play differently in front of him. Either you suck at coaching, or are full of lies.

[Toonage]

Not sure I'd place the blame on anyone in particular for last night. They were almost all awful.

That game was indicative of more than a few larger issues at play.

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by Huntingwhale

Absolutely horrid game. Was embarrassed I put this on the TV in my house. Only positive was Huberdeau's goal was super nice. Everything else...woof. Games like this are why people are occasionally justified in freaking out after losses.

LOL at the coach on fan960 who said recently he gets annoyed when fans say the team plays differently in front of Markstrom and it's not true. Not pinning the entire loss on him, but clear as day the team DOES in fact play differently in front of him. Either you suck at coaching, or are full of lies.

Even if they do play differently in front of him, how is that on him?

You can’t just not pin “the entire loss” on Markstrom this time. You can’t pin any of it on him. Without him it’s 3 or 4-0 before the half way mark of the first. He’s the only reason it was tied after one. Afte which the Flames scored zero goals, and allowed the Hawks to go to the net unimpeded. Hell, they scored one of the Hawk goals and assisted on another.

[PepsiFree]

Originally Posted by GS Skier

They lost twice to the two worst teams in the league. When all you can do is tie and hope for a miracle in OT against the very worst tanking teams then you have have major problems. If you loose one defender (Tanev) and suddenly "can't win"?!? it's time to have a field day at the trade deadline and move some of the defensemen who apparantly can't play with out one guy. Andersson would fetch a good return among others and our defense isn't doing us any good.

I know people aren’t done being apoplectic and I try not to intrude on the pity parade after a loss, but it’s worth pointing out that this doesn’t really mean anything, actually.

Boston has 6 regulation losses, one of those is to Arizona and the other is to Ottawa (who also beat them in a shootout).

Carolina has lost to Arizona, Anaheim, and Columbus.

Toronto has lost to Arizona (twice), San Jose, and Anaheim.

Dallas has lost to San Jose twice.

Calgary has lost to Chicago twice, and Columbus once.

That’s not to say Calgary is a fun team to watch (they aren’t) or a Stanley Cup contender (would need a miracle) but just that it’s low hanging fruit that doesn’t have any real significance when judging the quality of a team of what is/isn’t wrong with it and how major those problems might be.

With the defence, it’s hard. We lost Tanev, but we’ve also been without Kylington. The two formed our best pairing last year, so that’s a very hard blow and would be to any team, not fair to blame the rest of the guys for not making it work. We might have the worst bottom pairing in the league with Tanev and Kylington out. We also can’t score to save our lives after losing our top two scoring wingers, so I don’t know, maybe that’s a pretty clear and obvious problem and one that doesn’t have anything to do with the defence.

[The Cobra]

Originally Posted by GioforPM

Even if they do play differently in front of him, how is that on him?

You can’t just not pin “the entire loss” on Markstrom this time. You can’t pin any of it on him. Without him it’s 3 or 4-0 before the half way mark of the first. He’s the only reason it was tied after one. After which the Flames scored zero goals, and allowed the Hawks to go to the net unimpeded. Hell, they scored one of the Hawk goals and assisted on another.

The Hawks played with enthusiasm to be sure, which is good for them since they have little to play for. Presumably good coaching has them generally prepared to play the best they can.

But at the end of the day, they are a terrible team. Just terrible.

Markstrom played poorly as a whole, to suggest it's 3-0 or 4-0 without him suggests that goalies shouldn't make anything other than easy saves.

But I would pin the loss on the entire team, but he needs to take his fair share of the blame. He certainly did nothing to prevent the loss.

[OldDutch]

I guess if they win tonight its the same as winning last night and losing tonight points wise.

Which is fine but follows the script of this team making it harder on themselves. Reminds me of when the Flames slid out end of season and instead of getting a weak Blues matchup they got the Hawks coming into their prime.

[rooster]

Originally Posted by CroCop

Ya I think Sutter has sucked the life from this group. Crazy how he’s seemed to have lost it in a year. His drop in performance as a coach is not unlike Huberdeau as a player from last season. Wonder what Trotz is up to these days.

Fire Sutter. I want Bruce!

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by The Cobra

The Hawks played with enthusiasm to be sure, which is good for them since they have little to play for. Presumably good coaching has them generally prepared to play the best they can.

But at the end of the day, they are a terrible team. Just terrible.

Markstrom played poorly as a whole, to suggest it's 3-0 or 4-0 without him suggests that goalies shouldn't make anything other than easy saves.

But I would pin the loss on the entire team, but he needs to take his fair share of the blame. He certainly did nothing to prevent the loss.

He didn’t play poorly as a whole at all. He was the best player in the game. And he made a whole bunch of non “easy saves”. He had to make about 10 fantastic saves because his team just didn’t play at all. He did as much as any goalie could have in this game.

[Toonage]

Nick Alberga (not an insider, but radio personality I suppose I would call him) suggested Barry Trotz could "fix the Flames"

Easy to laugh off, until you remember that Treliving is without a contract and Trotz wanted to be the GM & heads coach of his next team.

Still easy to laugh off. But a little less easy I suppose.