[PGT] Hawks 5 Flames 1

[Bingo]

Originally Posted by GioforPM

He didn’t play poorly as a whole at all. He was the best player in the game. And he made a whole bunch of non “easy saves”. He had to make about 10 fantastic saves because his team just didn’t play at all. He did as much as any goalie could have in this game.

The expected tally is 3.75-3.56 for Calgary.

The Flames offence couldn't finish as per usual putting more pressure on their goaltender.

The dispassionate look at the 3.56 against suggests Markstrom was exactly where Vladar was the last two games ... slightly back of the suggested (less than a goal).

Calgary goaltending continues to be vanilla ... not the saving grace, not the boat anchor ... just there.

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by Toonage

Nick Alberga (not an insider, but radio personality I suppose I would call him) suggested Barry Trotz could "fix the Flames"

Easy to laugh off, until you remember that Treliving is without a contract and Trotz wanted to be the GM & heads coach of his next team.

Still easy to laugh off. But a little less easy I suppose.

Does Mitch Korn come with him?

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by Bingo

The expected tally is 3.75-3.56 for Calgary.

The Flames offence couldn't finish as per usual putting more pressure on their goaltender.

The dispassionate look at the 3.56 against suggests Markstrom was exactly where Vladar was the last two games ... slightly back of the suggested (less than a goal).

Calgary goaltending continues to be vanilla ... not the saving grace, not the boat anchor ... just there.

Those three goals though. How do the stats reflect (a) a shot off Zadorov’s butt; (b) a breakaway because the Flame D decided to hold hands at the boards and (c) Coleman deflecting a two on one puck to create a perfect back door pass instead of a backhand.

[Toonage]

Originally Posted by GioforPM

Does Mitch Korn come with him?

I think Mitch stayed on the island, but I would honestly assume if that were to happen, yeah he would. Trotz would likely clean house with that much power.

Honestly don't see it happening but was fun to think about.

[undercoverbrother]

I missed the game, I was coaching my son's U18 team to a 9-3 win.

So let me know if ya'll want me to shoot a note to Tre about coaching opportunities.

[Bingo]

Originally Posted by GioforPM

Those three goals though. How do the stats reflect (a) a shot off Zadorov’s butt; (b) a breakaway because the Flame D decided to hold hands at the boards and (c) Coleman deflecting a two on one puck to create a perfect back door pass instead of a backhand.

For sure ...

And Hanifin serving up the pizza to Stamkos for a one timer that wasn't in the home plate wouldn't register as a whisker of an expected goal on Saturday.

At least it evens out.

My point lately is the goalies have been fine, just not stealing games.

[madmike]

Originally Posted by undercoverbrother

I missed the game, I was coaching my son's U18 team to a 9-3 win.

So let me know if ya'll want me to shoot a note to Tre about coaching opportunities.

Unfortunately I think Tre is all but done with the Flames. Honestly he wasn’t great, but I think he’s better than what the Flames will have going forward.

This will be Sutter’s team. They’ll either make Darryl the GM, or stick in a Darryl yes-man.

[Saqe]

Originally Posted by PepsiFree

I know people aren’t done being apoplectic and I try not to intrude on the pity parade after a loss, but it’s worth pointing out that this doesn’t really mean anything, actually.

Boston has 6 regulation losses, one of those is to Arizona and the other is to Ottawa (who also beat them in a shootout).

Carolina has lost to Arizona, Anaheim, and Columbus.

Toronto has lost to Arizona (twice), San Jose, and Anaheim.

Dallas has lost to San Jose twice.

Calgary has lost to Chicago twice, and Columbus once.

That’s not to say Calgary is a fun team to watch (they aren’t) or a Stanley Cup contender (would need a miracle) but just that it’s low hanging fruit that doesn’t have any real significance when judging the quality of a team of what is/isn’t wrong with it and how major those problems might be.

It's totally different to be 10-15 points above playoff bubble teams and have an offnight against bottom feeders. The Flames really can't afford these losses, those teams can.

[dino7c]

Originally Posted by Saqe

It's totally different to be 10-15 points above playoff bubble teams and have an offnight against bottom feeders. The Flames really can't afford these losses, those teams can.

The teams around the Flames lose to bottom feeders too

I mean it happened last night and the night before

[Rick M.]

Originally Posted by Toonage

Nick Alberga (not an insider, but radio personality I suppose I would call him) suggested Barry Trotz could "fix the Flames"

Easy to laugh off, until you remember that Treliving is without a contract and Trotz wanted to be the GM & heads coach of his next team.

Still easy to laugh off. But a little less easy I suppose.

Trotz didn’t fix the Islanders.

[PepsiFree]

Originally Posted by Saqe

It's totally different to be 10-15 points above playoff bubble teams and have an offnight against bottom feeders. The Flames really can't afford these losses, those teams can.

Not really. If Dallas drops games to bottom feeders and Calgary doesn’t, they switch places. 10 points is five wins, and there are 6 teams distinctly at the bottom of the NHL. The points that decide who gets in the playoffs and the matchups are generated the same way for everyone. A win is 2 points, an OTL is 1. Doesn’t matter what teams they come against, they’re all calculated the same way.

Either losing to bottom feeders is indicative of a major internal problem or it isn’t, but if it is, then all of the top teams have a major problem. If it’s not, then it’s not for Calgary either.

We don’t have to make up different standards for each team. Flames have to win. Doesn’t matter what team it’s against. Just win. They aren’t doing it enough. Pretty simple.

[ComixZone]

Originally Posted by Bingo

For sure ...

And Hanifin serving up the pizza to Stamkos for a one timer that wasn't in the home plate wouldn't register as a whisker of an expected goal on Saturday.

At least it evens out.

My point lately is the goalies have been fine, just not stealing games.

I get the point you’re making…but when the season wraps, and we look back at it I think (at least right now) I’ll look back at this season with two key memories:

1. Goaltending was terrible. .893 from the starter is unacceptable, and .904 from the backup is, as you say, vanilla
2. The skill required to finish scoring chances doesn’t exist on this roster.

[Nufy]

With 10 minutes left I started watching a re-run of "Office Space"

Kinda fitting as the whole team seemed like Peter Gibbons...

[Toonage]

Originally Posted by Rick M.

Trotz didn’t fix the Islanders.

2 conference finals before he got the boot cause Lou is weird.

With a team built very much like the current Flames I might add. Older, slower, etc

[SuperMatt18]

Originally Posted by ComixZone

I get the point you’re making…but when the season wraps, and we look back at it I think (at least right now) I’ll look back at this season with two key memories:

1. Goaltending was terrible. .893 from the starter is unacceptable, and .904 from the backup is, as you say, vanilla
2. The skill required to finish scoring chances doesn’t exist on this roster.

Part of this to me is system.

There isn't evidence of this but I feel like when the Flames do generate a high danger chance a lot of the time it's because they carried it to the high danger area themselves.

I still don't see a lot of pre-shot passing that is what gets the goalie moving laterally to give you a better shot to score.

If the goalie can be set and not have to move laterally before the shot it's tough to score in the NHL, no matter where you are shooting from.

And to me that might be system - nobody is making the extra pass this year. It's a big problem on the PP too - no quick passes. Pass it around the outside try to open up a shooting lane, hope for a rebound.

[Saqe]

Originally Posted by PepsiFree

Not really. If Dallas drops games to bottom feeders and Calgary doesn’t, they switch places. 10 points is five wins, and there are 6 teams distinctly at the bottom of the NHL. The points that decide who gets in the playoffs and the matchups are generated the same way for everyone. A win is 2 points, an OTL is 1. Doesn’t matter what teams they come against, they’re all calculated the same way.

Either losing to bottom feeders is indicative of a major internal problem or it isn’t, but if it is, then all of the top teams have a major problem. If it’s not, then it’s not for Calgary either.

We don’t have to make up different standards for each team. Flames have to win. Doesn’t matter what team it’s against. Just win. They aren’t doing it enough. Pretty simple.

I'm not saying there is a major internal problem or making different standards. I'm just saying when you're a top team losing to a bottom feeder, you shouldn't read into to almost at all but when you're in a playoff bubble there are consistency issues. And again, not talking about teams like Colorado which we know almost certainly will make the playoffs and probably as a top three seed in their division when it's all said and done.

[Bingo]

Originally Posted by SuperMatt18

Part of this to me is system.

There isn't evidence of this but I feel like when the Flames do generate a high danger chance a lot of the time it's because they carried it to the high danger area themselves.

I still don't see a lot of pre-shot passing that is what gets the goalie moving laterally to give you a better shot to score.

If the goalie can be set and not have to move laterally before the shot it's tough to score in the NHL, no matter where you are shooting from.

And to me that might be system - nobody is making the extra pass this year. It's a big problem on the PP too - no quick passes. Pass it around the outside try to open up a shooting lane, hope for a rebound.

But they were last year.

I doubt he changed the system.

They just don't have the same bodies with the same skill set.

[SuperMatt18]

Originally Posted by Bingo

But they were last year.

I doubt he changed the system.

They just don't have the same bodies with the same skill set.

Part of it is skill for sure. And even then last year only one line did it.

So I don't know...he's talking way more about shot volume and getting pucks to the net this year.

We shot 13.05% with Gaudreau-Tkachuk-Lindholm on the ice last year.

We shot 6.33% with them off the ice.

This year as a team we are shooting 7.71%.

Overall though I do think part of it is coaching - even as fans we get mad at Huberdeau when he tries to do it and the pass fails. Overall I think the Flames need to take a bit more time to try to make some of those passes.

[DeluxeMoustache]

Originally Posted by Bingo

But they were last year.

I doubt he changed the system.

They just don't have the same bodies with the same skill set.

Huberdeau had 115 points like Gaudreau, and Kadri was on a 100 point pace (87 in 71). I get that they have different particular skill sets, but it’s not like they didn’t add skill

I don’t get why the job Tkachuk did on the PP, which worked, isn’t being used. It’s a known strategy, that is coached at many levels, worked here, works in Florida now, but has been forgotten here

I see the xGF numbers and they don’t match what I saw.

You say it is dispassionate, but frankly it’s inadequate. Last night, I saw some chances in the third that I expect would register as high danger but in reality were not. The Flames didn’t deserve 3-4 goals based on the shots they took, and Markstrom made a couple of 10 bellers.

Chicago kicked their asses, and the game could or should have been more like 6-1

[Bingo]

Originally Posted by DeluxeMoustache

Huberdeau had 115 points like Gaudreau, and Kadri was on a 100 point pace (87 in 71). I get that they have different particular skill sets, but it’s not like they didn’t add skill

I don’t get why the job Tkachuk did on the PP, which worked, isn’t being used. It’s a known strategy, that is coached at many levels, worked here, works in Florida now, but has been forgotten here

I see the xGF numbers and they don’t match what I saw.

You say it is dispassionate, but frankly it’s inadequate. Last night, I saw some chances in the third that I expect would register as high danger but in reality were not. The Flames didn’t deserve 3-4 goals based on the shots they took, and Markstrom made a couple of 10 bellers.

Chicago kicked their asses, and the game could or should have been more like 6-1

The Flames upped their expected goals with a busy 3rd period ... which matched my eye test perfectly.

1.2 expected goals through 40, and 2.45 in the final 20.

Calgary only had 4 high danger chances through 40 minutes, that's terrible and very much what you were seeing.