Prediction 14/15: Who makes the jump?

[Stormchaser]

Originally Posted by gargamel

I think there's only a spot for one of those guys in the lineup. Gaudreau will earn it, but it wouldn't shock me if they give it to Baertschi since this is his make or break year. I wouldn't have any complaints either way.

Cundari and Wolf (as long as Johnny is a Flame, otherwise Wolf will be his protection in the AHL) are my picks to be pressbox fillers, though Wolf will get a chance to play some games if the matchups are right.

This had better not be the case! We need to stick with these guys and let them figure it out. Baertschi has had a rough go but he is still a pretty great prospect to have in the system. Sometimes a young player just needs a couple years to figure out how to be a pro and put it all together.

[Drury18]

Originally Posted by stormchaser

This had better not be the case! We need to stick with these guys and let them figure it out. Baertschi has had a rough go but he is still a pretty great prospect to have in the system. Sometimes a young player just needs a couple years to figure out how to be a pro and put it all together.

I do believe there is some merit to call this his make or break year.

To end the 2012-13 season, Baertschi was demoted due to confidence issues and needing to find his game. He was 20 and pushed into a game a little higher then where he was ready. He got a pass for that. Rightfully so.

He then had what could almost be described as a catastrophic 2013-14. Poor development camp, average to poor training camp, struggled with the Flames, struggled with the Heat, showed about a month of brilliance in the AHL before disappearing again, left off the Swiss Olympic team and then goes to the World's and gets injured the first or second game. He was 21, he's still learning and he's still young. He got a pass for that, still learning.

I think if he doesn't come into this season and show that he's matured in his game and a consistent player, whether it's in the AHL or NHL (more likely AHL which is where he does belong right now), we do have to look at the possibility that this is a pattern and that he's not maturing, he's not going forward in his career and something is causing a stall in his development. He does need to show some sort of growth is his game because at times, it looked like he regressed. Should he come into 2014-15 and have a season similar to last year, the Flames would be foolish to look the other way. Perhaps that shows Baertschi isn't suited to the system the Flames like to play and we can trade him to a team where he would have success and get a prospect/player back that fits our system.

I do believe that last year was the Flames Management granting him a "free pass" for what happened and expectations for him are higher. Should he not meet them, they will need to re-evaluate what his best use for us is.

As for players making it:

Granlund, Reinhart and Wotherspoon should based on their play, however I have a feeling Wolf will as I can't see him coming over just to play in the AHL and I think Hanowski will get a possibly less earned spot as he has the one year bridge contract and the Flames took a good long look last season and re-signed him.

[Cali Panthers Fan]

Originally Posted by djsFlames

pick 2:
Gaudreau
Wolf
Baertschi
Granlund
Bennett
Poirier
Reinhart
Ferland
Knight
Arnold

pick 1:
Wotherspoon
Sieloff
Cundari
Kulak
Ramage
Kanzig

Wolf has the tools to step in right now, so long as his conditioning is better than it was at summer camp. Granlund would have stuck with the team all year if not for an injury. Same can be said of Wotherspoon. Tyler might get an extra year in the AHL to finish rounding out his game, but he's right on the cusp of being an every day NHLer.

[EVERLAST]

Gaudreau,
Cundari
Arnold

[gargamel]

Originally Posted by stormchaser

This had better not be the case! We need to stick with these guys and let them figure it out. Baertschi has had a rough go but he is still a pretty great prospect to have in the system. Sometimes a young player just needs a couple years to figure out how to be a pro and put it all together.

Unless I'm mistaken (which certainly isn't out of the question), he will be subject to waivers starting next season, so he needs to be a full time NHL player by next year or else we'll have to cut bait like Toronto did with Colbourne. I guess he could theoretically improve a lot over next summer, but I think he needs to at least be close by the end of this season.

[#-3]

Are allot of people picking Cundari because he will have to clear waivers?

I just don't see that being an issue. It is rare that teams are willing to commit 30 days on an NHL roster to these guys. It Wootherspoon is better he will be the guy.

[IgiTang]

I hate how people say player X deserves it more than player Y, if one guy outplays the other, the better player deserves it IMO.

[ForeverFlameFan]

Originally Posted by ForeverFlameFan

Baertschi
Gaudreau

Wotherspoon

I want players to get as much ice time as possible. I want to further explain myself with my reasoning from my original post. This what I think each player gets in both the NHL/AHL (or CHL) from the players listed in the OP:


Forwards


Gaudreau: 1st/2nd line minutes, 1st line AHL minutes - Regardless of what league he plays in, he'll get top 6 minutes. Hartley might put him as the 2nd line LW if he plays in the NHL, but I bet that would change throughout the season.


Wolf: 4th line NHL minutes, 2/3rd line AHL minutes - As much as I am excited for the signing, I think he should spend his first year in the AHL, just so we can get a good idea of what we've got.


Baertschi: 2nd/3rd line NHL minutes, 1st/2nd line AHL minutes - Baertschi may have had a rough year, but he is still a .5 PPG player in the NHL. I think if he played 3rd line minutes (maybe 2nd line minutes too), he can still put up that .5 PPG. Had great chemistry with Monahan, I'd love to see Sven and Sean reunite, along with Joe as well.


Granlund: 3rd line NHL minutes, 1st/2nd line AHL minutes - While I do agree that Granlund looked a lot better than Sven and deserves it more, I'd rather give Granlund top line minutes in the AHL rather than 3rd line minutes in the NHL.


Bennett: 2nd/3rd line NHL minutes, 1st line OHL minutes - I think Sam B. is capable of getting that 9 game tryout in the NHL, but I think management will still want him to further his development in the OHL where he'd get top line minutes. The future is bright for Sam, there's no need for him to be rushed.


Poirier: 3rd line NHL minutes, 1st line AHL minutes - I wouldn't mind seeing a little bit of Poirier in the AHL, but I'd rather him get the top line AHL minutes. He looked very comfortable out there on AHL ice last year, lets see how he can do with a full year on his belt.



Reinhart - 3rd/4th line NHL minutes, 1st/2nd line AHL minutes - Max, like Granlund, had a great year in the AHL. He too should get top minutes in the AHL to further his development.



Ferland - 4th line NHL minutes, 2nd/3rd/4th line AHL minutes - Had a bad injury, but he's perfectly capable of bouncing back.



Knight - 4th line NHL minutes, 2nd/3rd AHL minutes - I liked what I saw from Knight, he's pretty good at faceoffs, not too noticeable but doesn't make that many mistakes. He too needs more minutes to further development, so I'd put him back in the NHL.


Arnold - 4th line NHL minutes, 2nd/3rd AHL minutes - Arnold proved that he doesn't need Johnny. He played really well in his NHL debut without Johnny, and got pretty comfortable after his first few shifts. Hasn't played an AHL game yet, but I guarantee he will next year, especially with the log jam at centers in both leagues. He'll get more playing time with the Baby Flames.




Defense

Wotherspoon: 4/5/6 NHL minutes, 1/2 AHL minutes - I want Tyler getting top pairing minutes in Adirondack and should/will be the first call up.

Sieloff: 6/7 NHL minutes, 3/4/5 AHL minutes - Curious to see how Sieloff can do with all of the unfortunate events happening to him. Has high upsides on having an NHL career, I can see him as a #4 for Adirondack.


Cundari: 5/6/7 NHL minutes, 2/3/4 AHL minutes - Probably the player I'd slot behind Wotherspoon as the most NHL ready defenseman. He's been moved around a lot, but everywhere he's played he's played good enough to never be considered bad.


Kulak: 6/7 NHL minutes, 1/2/3 AHL minutes - Kulak looks like the one to impress everyone, he had a great training camp and looks like another late gem. Looking to see great things from him in the AHL.


Ramage: 6/7 NHL minutes, 5/6 AHL minutes - Wasn't in the AHL last year, but I hope that he can find his groove again.


Kanzig: 6/7 NHL minutes, 4/5/6 AHL minutes - Imo, he had better upside than Breen and looks way better defensively, lets see how he can do against players in a better league.


My original picks: Gaudreau, Baertschi, and Wotherspoon.



If there is only one rookie spot in the NHL, it goes to Gaudreau. He's too difficult to send to the AHL when he's already showed how good he is in both the NCAA, the 1 NHL game, and the development camp. Wherever he goes, he'll be successful.


Sven deserves a roster spot too, he's proven himself a little more than Granlund. Imo, Granlund could use another year in the AHL with top line minutes. No need to rush him. Sven worked on his 200ft game, it's better and I want to see how it translates on the NHL ice. Sending him to the AHL was a wake up call, I think he'll come back fired up.


Wotherspoon needs top minutes. If we don't sign a 6/7 reclamation project defenseman (as Treliving stated), I think Cundari played good enough to take on that role as that 6/7 guy. He's improved little by little every year. Yes, I picked Wotherspoon, but Cundari looks more likely to take the role as the 6/7.

[kehatch]

Baertschi: They gave him a low number and this is the season that most prospects tend to make it. Plus he looked ready when he played. If he has a strong camp he is in.

Granlund: He has played against men already and he was really good in the AHL.

Cundari: The Flames need a 7D. Cundari fits better than Wotherspoon who needs to play. Plus, with a 1 year contract we need to see what he has.

[Nehkara]

Pick 2:
Gaudreau
Wolf
Baertschi
Granlund
Bennett
Poirier
Reinhart
Ferland
Knight
Arnold

I really think that Hartley and Treliving would like to put Gaudreau in Adirondack for a year, but I don't think he is going to give them that option. He will ignite training camp, preseason, and the beginning of the regular season and force his way on to the team, much like Monahan did.

I think Baertschi will put it together this year and make his way back to the NHL. Granlund is very close but I think the fact that he still has 2 years left on his ELC, the Flames will probably have him in Adirondack for most of the year (but I expect to see him on callups).

As an aside, despite some tough love from management I don't think the Flames are anywhere remotely close to giving up on Baertschi. Even if he spends all of 2014/15 in the AHL, I fully expect him to be signed to another NHL contract with the Flames at the end of the season and make the big team next year.


Pick 1:
Wotherspoon
Sieloff
Cundari
Kulak
Ramage
Kanzig

I'm going to favour Wotherspoon here but I think Cundari stands a good chance too.

[kl83]

pick 2:
Gaudreau
Baertschi

pick 1:
Wotherspoon

[Funkhouser]

Only 1 spot available in the top 9, I think it either goes to Baer or Gaudreau. Its a toss-up; Gaudreau should make it but management may prefer to see him pay his dues. Baer is in a make-or-break season and giving him a longer leash will allow management to see what they have in addition to displaying him for other teams to see, should they envision trading him.

1 spot available for a checking forward, I think it goes to Reinhart, with Wolf as a close 2nd.

For a 6/7th defenseman, I see Cundari as it won't really hurt his development to sit on the bench at this stage (much like Breen last year). If this is the case, hopefully he can show he belongs better than Breen did.

[Nehkara]

I'm actually pretty surprised that people think that Baertschi is gone if he doesn't make the team this season.

Especially considering what management has said about giving players more time in the AHL to learn to be a pro.

I think he probably has one more contract after this one before they will consider him a lost cause.

In either case, I think he makes it out of camp... either forcing someone else out or taking the spot of an injured player and never looking back.

[puckedoff]

Baertshci
Gaudreo
Cundari

I'm not sure there is actually room on the team for all three to make it without some injury trouble elsewhere.

Edit: Spelling

[gargamel]

Originally Posted by puckedoff

Baertshi
Gaodreo
Cundary

I'm not sure there is actually room on the team for all three to make it without some injury trouble elsewhere.

I'm not one to complain about spelling, but 0/3 with a "Gaodreo" is pretty rough.

[Drury18]

Originally Posted by Nehkara

I'm actually pretty surprised that people think that Baertschi is gone if he doesn't make the team this season.

Especially considering what management has said about giving players more time in the AHL to learn to be a pro.

I think he probably has one more contract after this one before they will consider him a lost cause.

In either case, I think he makes it out of camp... either forcing someone else out or taking the spot of an injured player and never looking back.

I think Baertschi's situation is unique as it's not just his play against him but his work ethic and attitude. Like I said, there is a bit of a pattern emerging which the Flames do need to keep an eye on in case he does turn into a lost cause and we are unable to move him for something beneficial for us.

You can take a "lesser" player like Hanowski for example who was told his skating was poor last season and so he stayed in Calgary and worked hard and made it his mission to improve it and drop weight to make an effort. While he might not be the same skill level as Baertschi, he's putting in a ton of effort to try to improve himself. If coaches criticize or bench him, he takes it personally enough to signal he needs to change things, but not to the point it crushes his spirit.

Baertschi, he took the criticism from the previous season and didn't seem to change anything or anything very noticeable. No extra work in Calgary with the Flames staff, was pretty adamant he was sticking to his game and just didn't seem to show that "I'm a sponge, give me all the info you can to make me better" attitude that a number of the other prospects have. When benched, he still doesn't seem to say "I need to change something" he still sticks with his game. He's stubborn and unfortunately he hasn't shown enough that he's good enough to be that stubborn. He needs to change that to have a better chance of success.

I still think most of this is because he's young and acting like any other 21/22 year old, however I recall at 22 this excuse starting to wear out and my employers/professors didn't care I was young. I could see the Flames starting to get to that point after this season.

[bax]

Originally Posted by Drury18

I think Baertschi's situation is unique as it's not just his play against him but his work ethic and attitude. Like I said, there is a bit of a pattern emerging which the Flames do need to keep an eye on in case he does turn into a lost cause and we are unable to move him for something beneficial for us.



You can take a "lesser" player like Hanowski for example who was told his skating was poor last season and so he stayed in Calgary and worked hard and made it his mission to improve it and drop weight to make an effort. While he might not be the same skill level as Baertschi, he's putting in a ton of effort to try to improve himself. If coaches criticize or bench him, he takes it personally enough to signal he needs to change things, but not to the point it crushes his spirit.



Baertschi, he took the criticism from the previous season and didn't seem to change anything or anything very noticeable. No extra work in Calgary with the Flames staff, was pretty adamant he was sticking to his game and just didn't seem to show that "I'm a sponge, give me all the info you can to make me better" attitude that a number of the other prospects have. When benched, he still doesn't seem to say "I need to change something" he still sticks with his game. He's stubborn and unfortunately he hasn't shown enough that he's good enough to be that stubborn. He needs to change that to have a better chance of success.



I still think most of this is because he's young and acting like any other 21/22 year old, however I recall at 22 this excuse starting to wear out and my employers/professors didn't care I was young. I could see the Flames starting to get to that point after this season.

There is a mighty ton of assumptions in this post imo

[Bingo]

added a poll for clarity

[codynw]

Originally Posted by puckedoff

Baertshci
Gaudreo
Cundari

I'm not sure there is actually room on the team for all three to make it without some injury trouble elsewhere.

Edit: Spelling

Improved to 1/3 after your edit. Not bad!

[djsFlames]

When have we been completely injury free in the first couple weeks of a season?

It's been a while. There always seems to be someone who agitates something in camp or some unfortunate freak thing (I think a couple times with Backlund in recent years).