The Deal With Geoff Ward

[OldSam]

What a pleasure hearing Versteeg so perfectly describe the Flames, their issues and the solution.

[shotinthebacklund]

Originally Posted by GioforPM

Versteeg must not be watching games then.

Versteeg 100% hit the nail on the head. Part of why the flames cant make a pass is because the lines are plugged with the already set up for-check of the other team so passes are between sticks and thru bodies or too far in front/behind.
Our dzone puck clearing is a problem because of structure being to rigid and players are standing still while the pressure is moving in. Everything is built to clear pucks from around the goalie which is one thing but the result is players again standing still, deep in our own end and no momentum to skate it out or if they do clear is a icing/ line change where they retreat thru the neutral zone and get hemmed in again and the cycle repeats.



we have very little east west movement in neutral zone because once we do get the puck up we have made a gap between puck carrier and forwards trying to flee the zone. Which end up running into the blue line / defensive pressure and again...stand still. When was the last time we have seen a D-man rush the puck up ice 5on5. IT DOES NOT HAPPEN.



System is busted and its 100% on the coach. Changes at coach or bare minimum play style must be implemented immediately . Players are over thinking it and bored out of their heads playing this style.

[Infinit47]

Originally Posted by GioforPM

One huge issue is that half of the things people “point out” are not actually happening on the ice, or happen very rarely. They talk about D to D passes when, on viewing, these happen only on a line change or when there’s no up ice pass. They go up ice with the first pass far more. Or saying the Flames are coached to dump and chase when they, again, only do that when there’s no available entry lane or pass. It silly things like complaining every single time the 4th line comes out. People complain if the 4th line plays after a goal against, a goal for, a power play, a PK, if the Flames are behind, or ahead, if they are struggling, if they are playing well... I’ve literally heard all those complaints. People put a blown coverage on the coach. They put a lazy back check on the coach. A missed pass. I guarantee I can find someone who said Lucic-Bennett’s missed pass was because of coaching. I might even be able to find someone blaming Rittich’s gaffe on Ward.

ETA: there are plenty of legit complaints. They aren’t disciplined with their passing, they are a collapsing passive D, and their powerplay is static.

So do you agree the legit complaints are enough to fire Ward? If the legit complaints are enough then who cares about the other stuff.

[Infinit47]

Originally Posted by GioforPM

Versteeg must not be watching games then.

Never a good look to pull out the "do you even watch the games bro", especially based on someone's two sentence paraphrasing of a radio interview.

[bubbsy]

Originally Posted by GioforPM

Versteeg must not be watching games then.

Hmmm I dunno. I see the flames d almost exclusively go d to d or go behind the net once winning the puck back. It's exactly the same concerns we had with gultzan. Allowing the opposition to setup defensively.

[kukkudo]

Originally Posted by OldSam

What a pleasure hearing Versteeg so perfectly describe the Flames, their issues and the solution.

Versteeg would make a good assistant coach I think.

[Lanny_McDonald]

Originally Posted by Infinit47

Never a good look to pull out the "do you even watch the games bro", especially based on someone's two sentence paraphrasing of a radio interview.

Especially when it is something posters complain about during game threads or in discussions about play. If everyone else is seeing something and you're not you either have a blind spot or need a trip to the optometrist.

[Infinit47]

Originally Posted by kukkudo

Versteeg would make a good assistant coach I think.

Unlikely that happens as he has no experience. Head coach maybe?

[Enoch Root]

Originally Posted by GioforPM

One huge issue is that half of the things people “point out” are not actually happening on the ice, or happen very rarely. They talk about D to D passes when, on viewing, these happen only on a line change or when there’s no up ice pass. They go up ice with the first pass far more. Or saying the Flames are coached to dump and chase when they, again, only do that when there’s no available entry lane or pass. It silly things like complaining every single time the 4th line comes out. People complain if the 4th line plays after a goal against, a goal for, a power play, a PK, if the Flames are behind, or ahead, if they are struggling, if they are playing well... I’ve literally heard all those complaints. People put a blown coverage on the coach. They put a lazy back check on the coach. A missed pass. I guarantee I can find someone who said Lucic-Bennett’s missed pass was because of coaching. I might even be able to find someone blaming Rittich’s gaffe on Ward.

ETA: there are plenty of legit complaints. They aren’t disciplined with their passing, they are a collapsing passive D, and their powerplay is static.

Lumping all of the various complaints into a giant pot and then criticizing the pile is not an argument. At least not a useful one. Try to find the better arguments and discuss those - that's how we improve the conversation.

Originally Posted by GioforPM

Versteeg must not be watching games then.

WTF? He is exactly right. And it is exactly what many of us have been saying for some time.

Perhaps it is you that is not seeing what is happening.

[Roof-Daddy]

Versteeg for head coach!!

...I'm only half joking.

(couldn't possibly be worse)

[Enoch Root]

not as head coach, but I would gladly have him in my organization - he's got chutzpah

[Toonage]

Like so many other things that pass through this organization he left broken.

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by bubbsy

Hmmm I dunno. I see the flames d almost exclusively go d to d or go behind the net once winning the puck back. It's exactly the same concerns we had with gultzan. Allowing the opposition to setup defensively.

They absolutely do not do this. If anything they try to push the puck up when they shouldn’t and they end up passing into coverage.

I purposely watched for this because of all the “D to D” comments and frankly was pretty surprised at how little they do it (same with dumping the puck)

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by Infinit47

Never a good look to pull out the "do you even watch the games bro", especially based on someone's two sentence paraphrasing of a radio interview.

I’m not accusing Versteeg of not watching games. I’m commenting on the description. Because it’s wrong. Go back and watch every single Ontario game.

[Calgary4LIfe]

Has anyone watched a Flames' practice under Ward? I haven't, and thus I am asking.


I know that under Hartley, the Flames practiced in a full-game tempo often. This led to the Flames being able to do things at speed in real game situations. Gulutzan didn't. I have no idea if Peters did or didn't, or Ward. Hartley was also really awesome in that he spent a lot of time on the ice doing one-on-one stuff - showing a player what he is doing wrong specifically, showing him how he should be doing something, etc. I do believe it is one of the reasons why that team punched above their weight.


While Hartley was doing that, Eakins' practices in Edmonton were slow - nothing close to game speed. I am sure this isn't everything, but it makes sense to me to practice as close to game-speed as possible.



I have heard that Tippet is running practices at a much higher tempo than what the Oilers have been doing this past decade. I think it helps.


Just curious if anyone that has ever watched a practice under Ward has any insight. I am curious.

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by Infinit47

So do you agree the legit complaints are enough to fire Ward? If the legit complaints are enough then who cares about the other stuff.

I’m fine with firing Ward. I’m sure a better coach will make a small difference. It’s not going to change the direction of the team. The players as a group and individually are not good enough.

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by Calgary4LIfe

Has anyone watched a Flames' practice under Ward? I haven't, and thus I am asking.


I know that under Hartley, the Flames practiced in a full-game tempo often. This led to the Flames being able to do things at speed in real game situations. Gulutzan didn't. I have no idea if Peters did or didn't, or Ward. Hartley was also really awesome in that he spent a lot of time on the ice doing one-on-one stuff - showing a player what he is doing wrong specifically, showing him how he should be doing something, etc. I do believe it is one of the reasons why that team punched above their weight.


While Hartley was doing that, Eakins' practices in Edmonton were slow - nothing close to game speed. I am sure this isn't everything, but it makes sense to me to practice as close to game-speed as possible.



I have heard that Tippet is running practices at a much higher tempo than what the Oilers have been doing this past decade. I think it helps.


Just curious if anyone that has ever watched a practice under Ward has any insight. I am curious.

I think because of COVID there’s not much access. Also they haven’t had a whole lot of practices, especially lately.

[The Boy Wonder]

Flames are, ON PAPER, the second or third best team in this division.

The fact that they are seemingly the 7th best team in terms of actually putting in effort tells me that the coach or the system is broken.

The flames do less with more than almost any team in the league

I would love to see the data on actual distance skated, avg. speed while on ice, partnered with going to tough areas and all the retrieval stats. (no idea if this exists)

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by The Boy Wonder

Flames are, ON PAPER, the second or third best team in this division.

The fact that they are seemingly the 7th best team in terms of actually putting in effort tells me that the coach or the system is broken.

The flames do less with more than almost any team in the league

I would love to see the data on actual distance skated, avg. speed while on ice, partnered with going to tough areas and all the retrieval stats. (no idea if this exists)

I’d bet the Flames skate the same distances, but slower. They go to the corners, but not to the net. I’d bet Tkachuk’s retrieval stats are down. I bet Mangiapane and Lucic’s are the same. I bet Monahan’s are up.

[GranteedEV]

Originally Posted by OldSam

What a pleasure hearing Versteeg so perfectly describe the Flames, their issues and the solution.

https://www.sportsnet.ca/960/boomer-...ys-fix-issues/