American Politics 3.0 - Back to Brunch

[undercoverbrother]

Originally Posted by MoneyGuy

I woke up at 7:45 today. Is that okay?

I don't believe you are as old as you say you are.

[MoneyGuy]

Originally Posted by Maritime Q-Scout

No. That's far too late in the morning.

I’m semi-retired consulting part-time from home. You guys wish you were me.

[GGG]

Originally Posted by PeteMoss

Voting for a 3rd party in the US is like lighting your vote on fire. If you are concerned about the Democrats not doing what you want them to do at least you can get 5% or whatever you want. Voting for some random 3rd party ensures you get 0%.

It depends if you are willing to wait for the collapse of the system the voting republican as a progressive is probably correct. You need to make conditions bad enough that you get mass strikes and protest. So a vote for a third party is a vote for long term institutional change. It’s not likely to happen but the Democrats missed a layup here. Biden is remarkably poor.

[MoneyGuy]

Originally Posted by undercoverbrother

I don't believe you are as old as you say you are.

Who are they and how old do “they” say I am?

[PeteMoss]

Originally Posted by GGG

It depends if you are willing to wait for the collapse of the system the voting republican as a progressive is probably correct. You need to make conditions bad enough that you get mass strikes and protest. So a vote for a third party is a vote for long term institutional change. It’s not likely to happen but the Democrats missed a layup here. Biden is remarkably poor.

What layup did he miss?

The president's party constantly gets decimated in the US in the non-presidential election year votes. It doesn't make sense to people outside of the US for the most part where Trump and Republicans are wildly unpopular but they seem to be treated as a normal political party in the US so these results are very much in line with what you'd expect, particularly when people don't feel the economy is doing well and are worried about inflation. Don't get me wrong - he's not crushing it, but he seems to be well within the range of a normal president.

[afc wimbledon]

Originally Posted by rubecube

They might not identify as progressives, but some progressive policies have pretty widespread bipartisan support. If the Democrats focused on implementing those policies and people's lives were actually improved from them, you seriously don't think those people would show up for them at future elections?

The problem is while polls might indicate that most Americans are in favour of some kind of gun control or some form of universal health care that doesnt translate to policies that work in the real world, everyone wants gun control in theory, no one wants limits on their guns, they want gun control for the rest of the town.

It's the same with universal health care, everyone likes the theory of it if you ask the right question, no one who is working and has decent health care insurance wants to wait in line like a schmoe with a bunch of poor people to see a doctor though.

What the progressive left needs to realise is polling by friendly pollsters asking the right question 'Would you favour laws that take military weapons out of the hands of potential criminals?' rather than 'would you favour it being really difficult for you to get a gun?' doesnt translate to any support in an election

[afc wimbledon]

Originally Posted by HockeyIlliterate

This mindset is exactly why 3rd parties can’t get any traction.

I firmly believe that, given the right conditions and the right candidate(s), people will vote en masse for a third party and will topple the current two party system.

And as voters continue to get ignored and taken for granted, I suspect that they will transition from your mindset to mine.

No there will never be a third party in the US, their system is specifically set up to prevent it, there may well be, and has been before, be a change in what the second party is, the Dem's or GOP may be replaced by a different party although even that is hard to see frankly.

[Macman]

Originally Posted by HockeyIlliterate

This mindset is exactly why 3rd parties can’t get any traction.

I firmly believe that, given the right conditions and the right candidate(s), people will vote en masse for a third party and will topple the current two party system.

And as voters continue to get ignored and taken for granted, I suspect that they will transition from your mindset to mine.

I wonder if Bernie Sanders shouldn't have stayed and run as an independent last election, it would have probably been a good opportunity seeing as who he was running against. But then there's the house/senate and I'm not sure how that would work for someone like that being president but I think he should have kept on as an independent.

[Maritime Q-Scout]

Originally Posted by MoneyGuy

I’m semi-retired consulting part-time from home. I don't have a four year old that wakes up at the crack of dawn screaming "IT'S MORNING!!!" You guys wish you were me.

Fixed your post there.

[MoneyGuy]

Originally Posted by Maritime Q-Scout

Fixed your post there.

Been there, managed that quite fine.

[Monahammer]

Originally Posted by Macman

I wonder if Bernie Sanders shouldn't have stayed and run as an independent last election, it would have probably been a good opportunity seeing as who he was running against. But then there's the house/senate and I'm not sure how that would work for someone like that being president but I think he should have kept on as an independent.

It obviously would have resulted in a 2nd Donald presidency. Not sure why you would think otherwise.

[the_only_turek_fan]

Beto is running for Governor.

Isn't he tired of losing yet?

[Azure]

Not sure if anyone had been following this, but great news and should set the stage for more successful strikes to help workers get proper compensation.

John Deere as an example was making more profit than ever before, and the original contract they had offered workers was pathetic. Good to see them hold out and get better.

Detroit — Deere & Co. workers approved a new contract Wednesday that will deliver 10% raises immediately and end a monthlong strike by more than 10,000 employees.

In addition to the initial raises, this week's offer kept the 5% raises that were in the third and fifth years of the six-year deal and 3% lump sum payments in the second, fourth and sixth years of the deal. The offer would also provide an $8,500 ratification bonus, preserve a pension option for new employees, make workers eligible for health insurance sooner and maintain their no-premium health insurance coverage.

https://www.cbsnews.com/news/john-de...es-third-vote/

[HockeyIlliterate]

The new contract is good for the residents of the cities where the Deere factories are located.

The new contract is likely not good for farmers and construction companies (and those who use and pay them), as their prices will likely increase.

And the new contract is definitely not good for pseudo-farmers who buy Deere hats every few years to go with their make-believe lawn tractor.

[dobbles]

Originally Posted by HockeyIlliterate

The new contract is good for the residents of the cities where the Deere factories are located.

The new contract is likely not good for farmers and construction companies (and those who use and pay them), as their prices will likely increase.

And the new contract is definitely not good for pseudo-farmers who buy Deere hats every few years to go with their make-believe lawn tractor.

I guess that's what baffles me about our obsession with capitalism. We have a company making record breaking profits, and yet they fight tooth and nail to prevent sharing those profits with the very workers that made them possible. Instead, we reward the stockholders, who at this point did nothing to particularly help the company make money. And so now as you allude to, because the workers will get a little more of the reward, instead of the capital class getting less of the reward, they just jack up prices so they don't miss out on a few precious pennies.

I don't have a solution. And I get the adage of "capitalism is the worst except for all the others". But boy is it nauseating to see this play out all the time.

The father of my best friend from childhood works at Deere (about to retire) and feels this was a good deal for the workers. Hopefully it will embolden labor to keep pushing back.

[PeteMoss]

Originally Posted by dobbles

I guess that's what baffles me about our obsession with capitalism. We have a company making record breaking profits, and yet they fight tooth and nail to prevent sharing those profits with the very workers that made them possible. Instead, we reward the stockholders, who at this point did nothing to particularly help the company make money. And so now as you allude to, because the workers will get a little more of the reward, instead of the capital class getting less of the reward, they just jack up prices so they don't miss out on a few precious pennies.

I don't have a solution. And I get the adage of "capitalism is the worst except for all the others". But boy is it nauseating to see this play out all the time.

The father of my best friend from childhood works at Deere (about to retire) and feels this was a good deal for the workers. Hopefully it will embolden labor to keep pushing back.

Also weird there are many anti-union/workers posters in general. Team shareholder!

[Canadianman]

Originally Posted by HockeyIlliterate

The new contract is good for the residents of the cities where the Deere factories are located.

The new contract is likely not good for farmers and construction companies (and those who use and pay them), as their prices will likely increase.

And the new contract is definitely not good for pseudo-farmers who buy Deere hats every few years to go with their make-believe lawn tractor.

I suppose this would be true if there were no competitors to JD. As it stands, JD cannot control prices. If they increase their prices, it seems likely that some people will buy substitute products.

[PeteMoss]

Originally Posted by Canadianman

I suppose this would be true if there were no competitors to JD. As it stands, JD cannot control prices. If they increase their prices, it seems likely that some people will buy substitute products.

I know nothing about John Deere or that market, but I would entirely shocked if the John Deere brand is either given them a price advantage or disadvantage over their competitors.

[HockeyIlliterate]

Originally Posted by Canadianman

I suppose this would be true if there were no competitors to JD. As it stands, JD cannot control prices. If they increase their prices, it seems likely that some people will buy substitute products.

People are extremely loyal to their color, especially in the agricultural area. Green, red, orange, etc.

And once you’ve bought the tractor/harvester/bailer/etc, you are going to have to service it, generally using parts from the same company that made the product.

So, in that respect, Deere does control prices.

[the_only_turek_fan]

Originally Posted by dobbles

I guess that's what baffles me about our obsession with capitalism. We have a company making record breaking profits, and yet they fight tooth and nail to prevent sharing those profits with the very workers that made them possible. Instead, we reward the stockholders, who at this point did nothing to particularly help the company make money. And so now as you allude to, because the workers will get a little more of the reward, instead of the capital class getting less of the reward, they just jack up prices so they don't miss out on a few precious pennies.

I don't have a solution. And I get the adage of "capitalism is the worst except for all the others". But boy is it nauseating to see this play out all the time.

The father of my best friend from childhood works at Deere (about to retire) and feels this was a good deal for the workers. Hopefully it will embolden labor to keep pushing back.

I think it will come from the shareholders themselves.

Look what happened with Exxon. Climate activists literally have board seats now after a proxy war.

I think you will see this coming for compensation at some point. I could see left leaning hedge funds take major stakes in these companies and start to push more pay and gender equality, etc..