Treliving needs to start feeling the heat

[Calgary4LIfe]

I think that Treliving is still very safe. Even with a tumble down the standings, he should still be rather safe. I look at the GM position as a clock that you start/stop, and even slow down/accelerate.

I think he got hired on in Calgary with the expectation that the Flames would be patient and rebuild over the long-haul the right way.

I do think two things:

1) He got the clock ticking when he fired Hartley. I do believe that a GM only has a few coaches before he ends up being the one changed.

2) He accelerated the clock with some key 'futures for now' deals - most notably Hamonic.

If the Flames finish 30th out of 31 (let's face it, they could lose almost every single one of their remaining games and it wouldn't be a given that they would finish last as Arizona is an embarrassment to hockey), I still think he gets retained. It is just that the proverbial clock starts ticking faster.

The only way to slow down that clock is by building up assets (drafting well), or doing well in the standings. A GM needs to show either results, or needs to show that they are heading in the right direction with a long-term goal in mind. Lose overall asset value and sink in the standings? Not many GMs keep their jobs.

Hamonic was expensive, but he can also be a long-term piece, or a piece you flip later on as well.

I just think that timer got started as soon as he fired Hartley, and it is just moving a bit quicker since the Hamonic acquisition (and the Smith acquisition, and the Lazar acquisition, and all other acquisitions combined where they traded futures for a better chance at winning now). They each incrementally add to the clock ticking faster, but can also slow the clock down if they out-perform expectations and make the GM look like a genius.

[ricardodw]

Originally Posted by Realtor 1

How can you be so certain the flames lose this trade?


Hamonic has averaged
0.26
0.46
0.29
0.29
0.28
points per year over his previous 5 years in New York (goes up if you go back further).

He is only 27 and big in the community and with charity.

Under GG he is a 0.15 pt per game player. I would not let your visual of him in a flames uniform overshadow what he has done throughout his career and the player he could be.

How many of our second round picks have gone on to be difference makers? How often does a bottom 10 pick in the first round become a big difference maker in 3 years time?

The flames are underperforming and everyone has their own reasons why. Fact is, nobody expected the flames to be where they are and oddsmakers everywhere had Calgary in the playoffs. Tre made a solid trade where very little could go wrong. That small % of what could go wrong seems to be going wrong right now but there is still lots of time to fix it.

The last year in NYI Hamonic was Chris Butler bad.... -21 on a team where the other 4 d-men playing more than 19 minutes/game were +25, +15, +11 and -3.


The Islanders were a very good 5on5 team except for Hamonic.

The Islanders missed the playoffs by 1 win last season. You think that Hamonic was in their long term plans at the end of last season?

[GreenLantern2814]

I don't think Treliving should be feeling heat at all. He's the GM. His overall plan and vision for the organization hasn't changed. He should take July 1 off.

Major criticism of years past: the goaltending. He fixed it with Elliott, he signed Rittich, got Gillies to forego the UFA route and drafted Parsons.

When Treliving took over, the Flames were so shallow defensively that a Mark Giordano injury forced Kris Russell and Dennis Wideman to play nearly 30 minutes a night, and saddled TJ Brodie with Deryk Engelland.

Since then, Treliving has added Dougie Hamilton, Travis Hamonic, Michael Stone, Rasmus Andersson, Oliver Kylington, Adam Fox and Jusso Valimaki. We want to fire this guy because his first choice as head coach is a muffin?

Treliving is a gambler, but I don't believe he's a reckless one. This team has a lot of pieces. The weakest part of the team is inarguably the fourth line.

Life isn't perfect - you don't ditch a steady, prudent GM who's done nothing but actively attempt to improve the team. Especially when the biggest gripes are some iffy UFA signings that don't hamstring you THAT much.

You fire the coach who's driving the Ferrari like a Buick.

[Strange Brew]

Originally Posted by ricardodw

The last year in NYI Hamonic was Chris Butler bad.... -21 on a team where the other 4 d-men playing more than 19 minutes/game were +25, +15, +11 and -3.


The Islanders were a very good 5on5 team except for Hamonic.

The Islanders missed the playoffs by 1 win last season. You think that Hamonic was in their long term plans at the end of last season?

Do you ever post when the Flames are winning?

I don't know what's going on with Hamonic, but no doubt the Islanders are absolutely loving that trade. They don't seem to miss him at all, and they got 3 high value draft picks.

Treliving is the same GM that picked up Schlemko for nothing and he made valuable contributions to the team that year. I'd prefer that approach vs. what he did here with Hamonic.

[Jason14h]

Originally Posted by GreenLantern2814

I don't think Treliving should be feeling heat at all. He's the GM. His overall plan and vision for the organization hasn't changed. He should take July 1 off.

Major criticism of years past: the goaltending. He fixed it with Elliott, he signed Rittich, got Gillies to forego the UFA route and drafted Parsons.

When Treliving took over, the Flames were so shallow defensively that a Mark Giordano injury forced Kris Russell and Dennis Wideman to play nearly 30 minutes a night, and saddled TJ Brodie with Deryk Engelland.

Since then, Treliving has added Dougie Hamilton, Travis Hamonic, Michael Stone, Rasmus Andersson, Oliver Kylington, Adam Fox and Jusso Valimaki. We want to fire this guy because his first choice as head coach is a muffin?

Treliving is a gambler, but I don't believe he's a reckless one. This team has a lot of pieces. The weakest part of the team is inarguably the fourth line.

Life isn't perfect - you don't ditch a steady, prudent GM who's done nothing but actively attempt to improve the team. You fire the coach who's driving the Ferrari like a Buick.

His plan and vision is playoffs and winning a round. If the team finishes in 11th in the West and has traded their first 3 draft picks, is that not a complete failure ? Who cares what his vision is if he continue to fail?

And naming some players he acquired over 4 year? Every GM would acquire players after 4 years.

His acquisitions have us in 11th....

[Stanley]

Originally Posted by GreenLantern2814

I don't think Treliving should be feeling heat at all. He's the GM. His overall plan and vision for the organization hasn't changed. He should take July 1 off.

Major criticism of years past: the goaltending. He fixed it with Elliott, he signed Rittich, got Gillies to forego the UFA route and drafted Parsons.

When Treliving took over, the Flames were so shallow defensively that a Mark Giordano injury forced Kris Russell and Dennis Wideman to play nearly 30 minutes a night, and saddled TJ Brodie with Deryk Engelland.

Since then, Treliving has added Dougie Hamilton, Travis Hamonic, Michael Stone, Rasmus Andersson, Oliver Kylington, Adam Fox and Jusso Valimaki. We want to fire this guy because his first choice as head coach is a muffin?

Treliving is a gambler, but I don't believe he's a reckless one. This team has a lot of pieces. The weakest part of the team is inarguably the fourth line.

Life isn't perfect - you don't ditch a steady, prudent GM who's done nothing but actively attempt to improve the team. Especially when the biggest gripes are some iffy UFA signings that don't hamstring you THAT much.

You fire the coach who's driving the Ferrari like a Buick.

This post should be bumped daily

[GreenLantern2814]

Originally Posted by Jason14h

His plan and vision is playoffs and winning a round. If the team finishes in 11th in the West and has traded their first 3 draft picks, is that not a complete failure ? Who cares what his vision is if he continue to fail?

And naming some players he acquired over 4 year? Every GM would acquire players after 4 years.

His acquisitions have us in 11th....

He's the GM. If you think he's assembled a roster of poor NHL players, I don't know what to tell you other than you're wrong. Give Darryl Sutter this team, and it has the pieces to be the 2012 Kings.

[Stanley]

Originally Posted by ricardodw

The last year in NYI Hamonic was Chris Butler bad.... -21 on a team where the other 4 d-men playing more than 19 minutes/game were +25, +15, +11 and -3.


The Islanders were a very good 5on5 team except for Hamonic.

The Islanders missed the playoffs by 1 win last season. You think that Hamonic was in their long term plans at the end of last season?

It certainly appears we gave up too much for Hamonic based on what we've seen so far, and I've been as critical about him as anyone on this forum. But I still believe he's a long term player that'll improve and solidify the back-end.

[transplant99]

Originally Posted by GreenLantern2814

He's the GM. If you think he's assembled a roster of poor NHL players, I don't know what to tell you other than you're wrong. Give Darryl Sutter this team, and it has the pieces to be the 2012 Kings.

wut?

This team is as far from that Kings team as one could get.

They were big, heavy, rough and nasty to play against, not to mention they were as offensively challenged as could be.....they just needed someone to pull them all in the same direction.

This club is as baby butt soft as has ever pulled the sweater on in this city.

[Jason14h]

Originally Posted by GreenLantern2814

He's the GM. If you think he's assembled a roster of poor NHL players, I don't know what to tell you other than you're wrong. Give Darryl Sutter this team, and it has the pieces to be the 2012 Kings.

Well there we go . We have a team that has a negative goal differential, and is under .500 in regulation games over the past 2 seasons .

We sit in 11th in the West, spend to the cap, and have no draft picks .

What an amazing collection of players we have !

At what point does being a good on paper team stop mattering? Maybe the GM should be smarter then the fans and media?

The only thing this team has excelled at is OT and Shootouts

[bubbsy]

Originally Posted by transplant99

wut?

This team is as far from that Kings team as one could get.

They were big, heavy, rough and nasty to play against, not to mention they were as offensively challenged as could be.....they just needed someone to pull them all in the same direction.

This club is as baby butt soft as has ever pulled the sweater on in this city.

It's an identity issue.

Outside of Gaudreau, Brodie, Kulak and Stajan, why can't the rest of the players be relied on to play a heavier game.

I just think a team with Ferland, tkatchuk, Bennett, Hathaway, Monahan, Jankowski, Brouwer, Lazar, even Backlund/Frolik can play a more in your face style. Defensively, Giordano, hamonic, stone, heck even Hamilton could be grittier.

This team isn't made up of as many soft pieces. It's a group of players who literally have no identity as a team.

A coach like Sutter won't convert them to the big bad LA kings. I have little doubt another coach would actually create an identity and gameplay that rendered an actual 'tough team to play against' rather than just regurgitating the buzz words, only to come back time after time and confess this group just 'crumples'.

[Jason14h]

Originally Posted by bubbsy

It's an identity issue.

Outside of Gaudreau, Brodie, Kulak and Stajan, why can't the rest of the players be relied on to play a heavier game.

I just think a team with Ferland, tkatchuk, Bennett, Hathaway, Monahan, Jankowski, Brouwer, Lazar, even Backlund/Frolik can play a more in your face style. Defensively, Giordano, hamonic, stone, heck even Hamilton could be grittier.

This team isn't made up of as many soft pieces. It's a group of players who literally have no identity as a team.

A coach like Sutter won't convert them to the big bad LA kings. I have little doubt another coach would actually create an identity and gameplay that rendered an actual 'tough team to play against' rather than just regurgitating the buzz words, only to come back time after time and confess this group just 'crumples'.

Who chose the coach ?

Either it’s the players or the coach . Either way it’s on BT

[GranteedEV]

Originally Posted by Jason14h

Who chose the coach ?

Either it’s the players or the coach . Either way it’s on BT

I'd go up a level further.

Who chose BT, and, according to BT, was the reason a guy like Glass was signed and such?

President of Hockey Operations, Brian Burke.

BT could probably be salvaged by a POHO who is in tune with the modern game. Maybe not, but maybe.

But as long as Burke is POHO, it will affect BT's performance. And whoever follows BT.

This team had the most hope when Feaster was intent on playing a long rebuild game, instead of Burke's MO which also tanked the Leafs.

[timbit]

Originally Posted by GranteedEV

I'd go up a level further.

Who chose BT, and, according to BT, was the reason a guy like Glass was signed and such?

President of Hockey Operations, Brian Burke.

BT could probably be salvaged by a POHO who is in tune with the modern game. Maybe not, but maybe.

But as long as Burke is POHO, it will affect BT's performance. And whoever follows BT.

This team had the most hope when Feaster was intent on playing a long rebuild game, instead of Burke's MO which also tanked the Leafs.

Yep...that was going to be a very very long rebuild, after the returns Feaster got for Bouwmeester and Iginla.

Never mind the damage he would have done if the Richards signing and O’Reilly offer sheet debacle had come to fruition, as was his plan.

Long rebuild indeed.

[Pizza]

Originally Posted by GranteedEV

I'd go up a level further.

Who chose BT, and, according to BT, was the reason a guy like Glass was signed and such?

President of Hockey Operations, Brian Burke.

BT could probably be salvaged by a POHO who is in tune with the modern game. Maybe not, but maybe.

But as long as Burke is POHO, it will affect BT's performance. And whoever follows BT.

This team had the most hope when Feaster was intent on playing a long rebuild game, instead of Burke's MO which also tanked the Leafs.

Why stop there? I'd go another level up

Ken King, the guy who promoted Darryl Sutter to GM
The guy who promoted Feaster
The guy who hired Burke
The guy who mishandled the CalgaryNext proposal and now is childishly is saying "we surrender!" with new arena proposals

Get this guy out and the healing can begin!

[transplant99]

Building teams normally takes time...lots of time. The Flames have been fortunate in that several of their young guys have been able to step in within a year or two of being drafted. Though its changed somewhat, the normal course of development sees most guys not make the NHL for 3 or 4 years (some even longer). Much like Jankowski. It's just the nature of the beast.

He (Treliving) will also make some mistakes along the way like every single other GM in the history of the game. It's part of the process, particularly a first time GM. It's fine to criticize those mistakes and even call for accountability and to correct them, but to expect a guy to come in and have a SC contender within 4 years from what he was handed when he got here is ridiculous. And as timbit points out...it could have been much worse. Feaster was great in the draft, but the other duties of his office lacked in a pretty big way.

I get that patience is not what anyone wants to hear in regards to this club, and in this age of instantaneous everything even more so. That simply is not realistic though.

Stay the course and see where things are at after next season with Tre.

[Aarongavey]

Originally Posted by transplant99

Building teams normally takes time...lots of time. The Flames have been fortunate in that several of their young guys have been able to step in within a year or two of being drafted. Though its changed somewhat, the normal course of development sees most guys not make the NHL for 3 or 4 years (some even longer). Much like Jankowski. It's just the nature of the beast.

He (Treliving) will also make some mistakes along the way like every single other GM in the history of the game. It's part of the process, particularly a first time GM. It's fine to criticize those mistakes and even call for accountability and to correct them, but to expect a guy to come in and have a SC contender within 4 years from what he was handed when he got here is ridiculous. And as timbit points out...it could have been much worse. Feaster was great in the draft, but the other duties of his office lacked in a pretty big way.

I get that patience is not what anyone wants to hear in regards to this club, and in this age of instantaneous everything even more so. That simply is not realistic though.

Stay the course and see where things are at after next season with Tre.

He inherited a team that finished 5 games under. 500 and was a playoff team in his first season. He turned that team into a non-playoff team, then a team that barely squeaked in last year and now an 11th place team.

In the process of taking a bubble team and turning it into a bubble team he traded a 1st, 1st, 2nd, 2nd, 2nd, 2nd, 2nd, 2nd, 3rd, 3rd, 3rd, 5th, and 6th round picks.

He did manage to receive a 2nd, 2nd, 2nd, 2nd, 3rd, 4th and 6th round picks.

So net he gave up a 1st, 1st, 2nd, 2nd, 3rd, 3rd to turn a bubble team into a bubble team.

[transplant99]

Originally Posted by Aarongavey

He inherited a team that finished 5 games under. 500 and was a playoff team in his first season. He turned that team into a non-playoff team, then a team that barely squeaked in last year and now an 11th place team.

In the process of taking a bubble team and turning it into a bubble team he traded a 1st, 1st, 2nd, 2nd, 2nd, 2nd, 2nd, 2nd, 3rd, 3rd, 3rd, 5th, and 6th round picks.

He did manage to receive a 2nd, 2nd, 2nd, 2nd, 3rd, 4th and 6th round picks.

So net he gave up a 1st, 1st, 2nd, 2nd, 3rd, 3rd to turn a bubble team into a bubble team.

He also added 2 very significant and young pieces in doing so...but you know dont let that be part of the equation. Its not like he just rolled the window down and threw things out. When you make trades, you have to use some sort of asset to complete it.

You can label it whatever you like, but again this is quite normal in the process. Time/patience are what most teams display and use as part of their orginizational philosophy. I get it is hard to take at times and it doesnt work at times as well, but its a pretty tried and true method throughout the years.

[Backlunds_socks]

Originally Posted by Roof-Daddy

Now we just need a thread relating to how terrible Dougie is and the trifecta of stupid over reactionary threads will be complete.

So fans can’t say anything bad about Treliving? He seems to have failed thus far.

He’s made a tone of terrible moves.

[Backlunds_socks]

Originally Posted by GreenLantern2814

I don't think Treliving should be feeling heat at all. He's the GM. His overall plan and vision for the organization hasn't changed. He should take July 1 off.

Major criticism of years past: the goaltending. He fixed it with Elliott, he signed Rittich, got Gillies to forego the UFA route and drafted Parsons.

When Treliving took over, the Flames were so shallow defensively that a Mark Giordano injury forced Kris Russell and Dennis Wideman to play nearly 30 minutes a night, and saddled TJ Brodie with Deryk Engelland.

Since then, Treliving has added Dougie Hamilton, Travis Hamonic, Michael Stone, Rasmus Andersson, Oliver Kylington, Adam Fox and Jusso Valimaki. We want to fire this guy because his first choice as head coach is a muffin?

Treliving is a gambler, but I don't believe he's a reckless one. This team has a lot of pieces. The weakest part of the team is inarguably the fourth line.

Life isn't perfect - you don't ditch a steady, prudent GM who's done nothing but actively attempt to improve the team. Especially when the biggest gripes are some iffy UFA signings that don't hamstring you THAT much.

You fire the coach who's driving the Ferrari like a Buick.

And then he got swept