Treliving needs to start feeling the heat

[the2bears]

Originally Posted by Jason14h

Top 4 is such a weird statement anyways. That's 66% of your D.

Do we refer to forwards as top 8 forwards! Janko is a top 8 forward on this team.....

Well, "Top 4" might be weird, but it's commonly used. It's 66% of the D, but more than that in minutes played.

[Scroopy Noopers]

Originally Posted by Jason14h

Top 4 is such a weird statement anyways. That's 66% of your D.

Edit: I understand what you meant now. My bad.

66% that play 75% of your minutes, and even more so for special teams.

[Jason14h]

Originally Posted by Scroopy Noopers

Nope, it isn't what you wrote.

66% that play 75% of your minutes, and even more so for special teams.

Okay clearly I was wrong . Hamonic has never played 1 or 2 D, and is part of a terrible 2nd pairing. But he is clearly a top 4 D, who will never actually play 1st pairing and is at best the 3rd best D on one of the worst defensive teams in the league.

Kulak is a top 6 D also by this definition 😏

[the2bears]

Originally Posted by Jason14h

Okay clearly I was wrong . Hamonic has never played 1 or 2 D, and is part of a terrible 2nd pairing. But he is clearly a top 4 D, who will never actually play 1st pairing and is at best the 3rd best D on one of the worst defensive teams in the league.

Kulak is a top 6 D also by this definition 😏

By what measure are you coming to this conclusion? They're middle of the pack in GA/GP. Mentally fragile and when they crash they crash hard. But I would say their offense was a bigger problem then their D.

[Jason14h]

Originally Posted by the2bears

By what measure are you coming to this conclusion? They're middle of the pack in GA/GP. Mentally fragile and when they crash they crash hard. But I would say their offense was a bigger problem then their D.

We have given up the 13th most goals . By the same definition Hamonic is top 4D, that is terrible! It’s in the bottom 66%!

Maybe “terrible when Gio isn’t in the ice” would have been a better statement!

[the2bears]

They're 16th in GA/GP, so not "one of the worst" unless you're being very broad in your definition. But keep twisting things to make your point re:Hamonic.

[Jason14h]

Originally Posted by the2bears

They're 16th in GA/GP, so not "one of the worst" unless you're being very broad in your definition. But keep twisting things to make your point re:Hamonic.

What do you think my point is? Is said he isn’t “top 4” cause he will never be a top 2 D. Do you think he is a top 2 D? My annoyance is calling him a top 4 D, when he has played zero games on the Flames on the first pairing. He is a second pairing D, who on a few occasions has been replaced by Stone...

But if people feel better about the brutal trade by calling him a top 4 D, then Using the argument that he is the 4th D on the flames so they are technically right I guess you win!

[the2bears]

You said he's not top 4, but he is. Then you went on to claim the Flames' D was "one of the worst", I guess to back up your claim that even if he is "top 4" it doesn't mean much.

What is your point, though? Why not be clear and direct about it? Are you trying to show it's a "brutal trade"?

I agree, though, that "2nd pairing" is a better term.

[troutman]

What 2nd pairing d-men were available last summer in free agency, and what kind of contracts did they get?

[Duffalufagus]

Hamonic trade has proven to be bad. Way too much paid. Sucks, really.

[the2bears]

Originally Posted by Duffalufagus

Hamonic trade has proven to be bad. Way too much paid. Sucks, really.

Where's this proof?

[Jiri Hrdina]

Originally Posted by troutman

What 2nd pairing d-men were available last summer in free agency, and what kind of contracts did they get?

Didn't look at that but did look at puck moving but flawed dmen and what they fetched in a trade.

A couple came to mind:
Keith Yandle
2015-Mar-01 Traded from Arizona Coyotes with Chris Summers and round 4 pick in the 2016 draft (Tarmo Reunanen) to New York Rangers for Anthony Duclair, John Moore, round 2 pick in the 2015 draft (Oliver Kylington) and round 1 pick in the 2016 draft (Dennis Cholowski)
Yandle had 2 years left on is deal I believe

Kevin Shattenkirk
2017-Feb-27 Traded from St. Louis Blues with Pheonix Copley to Washington Capitals for Zach Sanford, Brad Malone, conditional draft pick, round 1 pick in the 2017 draft (Morgan Frost) and conditional round 2 pick in the 2019 draft
He was a pending UFA

Both these guys average more offense than Brodie but not by a long shot. And similarly they have other flaws and can be adventures in their own zones.

I think teams value mobile puck moving dmen greatly, and the above deals underscore that (to me).

I think Brodie would get back a handsome return.

[Flamenspiel]

I am wondering if the Flames are going to win another game...Lets revisit this pick at the end of the season.

Looking at the standings, how far can they fall? Chicago is at 69 and that would make it 7th from the bottom. Detroit is at 65, I can't see them falling that far.

[Duffalufagus]

Originally Posted by the2bears

Where's this proof?

What do you mean by “proof”?

[Jiri Hrdina]

Originally Posted by Duffalufagus

What do you mean by “proof”?

What do you mean by "mean"

[troutman]

Originally Posted by Jiri Hrdina

Didn't look at that but did look at puck moving but flawed dmen and what they fetched in a trade.

A couple came to mind:
Keith Yandle
2015-Mar-01 Traded from Arizona Coyotes with Chris Summers and round 4 pick in the 2016 draft (Tarmo Reunanen) to New York Rangers for Anthony Duclair, John Moore, round 2 pick in the 2015 draft (Oliver Kylington) and round 1 pick in the 2016 draft (Dennis Cholowski)
Yandle had 2 years left on is deal I believe

Kevin Shattenkirk
2017-Feb-27 Traded from St. Louis Blues with Pheonix Copley to Washington Capitals for Zach Sanford, Brad Malone, conditional draft pick, round 1 pick in the 2017 draft (Morgan Frost) and conditional round 2 pick in the 2019 draft
He was a pending UFA

Both these guys average more offense than Brodie but not by a long shot. And similarly they have other flaws and can be adventures in their own zones.

I think teams value mobile puck moving dmen greatly, and the above deals underscore that (to me).

I think Brodie would get back a handsome return.

Alzner, Daley, Kulikov.

http://www.thehockeynews.com/news/ar...r-and-analysis

I feel like a top 4 d-man could have been added last summer, without giving up picks.

[Flamenspiel]

Originally Posted by Jiri Hrdina

What do you mean by "mean"

This is funny! i am not allowed thanks, but thanks for this. We are all gong to have to have a good sense of humour untill at least after the draft.

[Badgers Nose]

Originally Posted by Jason14h

We have given up the 13th most goals . By the same definition Hamonic is top 4D, that is terrible! It’s in the bottom 66%!

Maybe “terrible when Gio isn’t in the ice” would have been a better statement!

How about Hamonic is a bottom 4 d man that we paid too much for.

Great person though. That won’t help the Flames win games sadly.

[Psytic]

Really a shame we couldn't convince Shanahan to work for us. He gets hired on and proceeds to hire Lou Lamoriello the architect of The Devils who made the Stanley Cup playoffs all but three times between 1988 and 2012, qualified for five Stanley Cup Finals (in 1995, 2000, 2001, 2003 and 2012) and won the Stanley Cup three times (in 1995, 2000 and 2003). This isnt even mentioning Babcock.

We instead get Burke who had a decent resume but he proceeds to hire or allows the hirings' of Treliving and Maloney the architects behind the great Phoenix Coyotes. We supplement this with Cameron who led the Senators to a first round out and missed the playoffs in the second year before being let go. We wonder why we continue to be a mediocre team. It starts from the top down. You get what you pay for as they say.

[Corral]

Originally Posted by Psytic

Really a shame we couldn't convince Shanahan to work for us. He gets hired on and proceeds to hire Lou Lamoriello the architect of The Devils who made the Stanley Cup playoffs all but three times between 1988 and 2012, qualified for five Stanley Cup Finals (in 1995, 2000, 2001, 2003 and 2012) and won the Stanley Cup three times (in 1995, 2000 and 2003). This isnt even mentioning Babcock.

We instead get Burke who had a decent resume but he proceeds to hire or allows the hirings' of Treliving and Maloney the architects behind the great Phoenix Coyotes. We supplement this with Cameron who led the Senators to a first round out and missed the playoffs in the second year before being let go. We wonder why we continue to be a mediocre team. It starts from the top down. You get what you pay for as they say.

Yep. It starts and ends with Murray Edwards. As long as he is calling the shots, there will be no change. Just price increases.