[Signing] Gaudreau to Columbus (7 x $9.75 million)

[Paulie Walnuts]

Originally Posted by Kidder

https://globalnews.ca/news/8262158/c...eadership/amp/

High tempo practice and bag skating guys after 30 minutes of drills and a scrimmage are two different things.

[Street Pharmacist]

Originally Posted by Paulie Walnuts

He knew exactly what he was doing and that was leaving. He didn't know his destination but my gut tells me it was Philly but they fumbled the opportunity. Again he was a free agent he can choose to do whatever he likes go to whatever team he wants, the only part that I have a issue with is he lied and strung the team along for 2.5 months and his dumb comments afterwards.

Before the 115 point season a lot of people wanted change and he was one of them. He made the hard decision for us by leaving and letting us change the team and I think the majority of people are happy with the group we have now. Johnny never really strung together two good consecutive seasons so this upcoming season at 10.5 with him coming back was a huge question mark for me.

There's zero evidence for this and it's complete butt hurt revisionism. By all reports Johnny was looking for a permanent home last year hoping for a new contract but it was the Flames that wanted to see another year because if you remember he had just had a down year and Sutter had just been brought in. He was torn, and while it sucked for the organization, Johnny had nothing to gain from waiting. He would've likely got more offers had he announced he was leaving. It makes no sense that he had some master plan to screw the Flames

Why are some fans acting like he screwed the Flames for some selfish desires? It makes zero sense

[DazzlinDino]

Originally Posted by Jiri Hrdina

And many of us have probably been in similar situations.

Years ago I knew I needed to make a career pivot but was debating between going back to school for broadcasting, and an opportunity I had to go work in an interesting role for the City. Completely different paths and I was conflicted.


I played both scenarios out, applying to MRC for broadcasting and interviewing for the position. Nowhere along the way did i tell the city about my conflict as that would have taken me out of it, and I wanted the option as I wasn't sure. It went all the way to the offer, and when that happened, and in the moment I had to sign that offer or not, I realized it wasn't the path for me.



I remember calling the (from a payphone!) and letting them know and they were PISSED and said that I had lead them on. But until that moment I didn't know for sure.



The ONLY thing I fault Johnny for is, if he was not sure, he should not have told the Flames what the deal would need to be for him to accept. I think that is the one part where he misled them. If you are going to make that offer, you need to know you will sign it, otherwise do not. But there could also have been some agent pressure there, as the agent would have been motivated to get the deal done with the Flames as they were going to pay the most.



Ultimately Johnny did what is right for his family and himself, and I have no issue with that. I think he could have gone about it a little better, but whatever. At the end of the day it may end up being the best thing for him and the Flames.

This is a really good post and some great examples. Being a deaf person I often encourage people to walk in my shoes a little bit, and then they will understand how difficult it can be. For example, if I'm out with a group of friends and they're all chatting and having a good time, it is pretty hard for me to lip read everybody and keep up with the conversation; So then they might be a little confused about why I'm not participating. But if you give them a pair of earphones and turn the music up and then ask them to lip read and keep up with what's going on, it is pretty hard. To top it off, if I don't understand somebody right away sometimes they get frustrated. Imagine that I have to put up with that all day. It helps to try and walk in Johnny shoes a little bit, he was probably very conflicted. On top of that being a young guy, as you said he probably could have handled it a little better. I bet you if he had to do it over again he would do it differently, and he would have probably been more upfront with the organization about his feelings. The funny thing is.., Johnny's probably a really good guy, but somehow people want to paint him as someone who is thoughtless and was trying to hurt the organization. It's like I said being a deaf person, sometimes people are talking to me behind my back, and they think I'm being rude, when I actually, would be happy to smile and interact with them.

[dissentowner]

Originally Posted by Street Pharmacist

There's zero evidence for this and it's complete butt hurt revisionism. By all reports Johnny was looking for a permanent home last year hoping for a new contract but it was the Flames that wanted to see another year because if you remember he had just had a down year and Sutter had just been brought in. He was torn, and while it sucked for the organization, Johnny had nothing to gain from waiting. He would've likely got more offers had he announced he was leaving. It makes no sense that he had some master plan to screw the Flames

Why are some fans acting like he screwed the Flames for some selfish desires? It makes zero sense

It doesn't take a rocket scientist to understand what changed. What happened just after that time period where he wanted to stay with the Flames for his career? Meredith happened. Now this is not me putting the guy down for putting his wife's desires ahead of his own but if you look at everything that happened it is pretty clear to me who ultimately made the decision to leave Calgary and go back to the US and it was not Gaudreau or his family who by all accounts seem to have wanted to continue the relationship with the Flames. Given what we know about Gaudreau it would fit that he is the submissive one in his relationship and she is the decision maker and the boss. Guy probably just wants to keep her and her family happy and play hockey first, winning and legacy can take a back seat. Again, not saying he is wrong to do that although someday down the road when his career is over and he is just another skilled player who didn't really accomplish much he might regret not sticking to his guns.

[the-rasta-masta]

Originally Posted by redforever

The article said they have all their baby stuff. The article said they just bought a new house and are moving in. No wonder the nursery is not ready.

No, the article said it hasn’t arrived yet, but he still will be coming home from training camp and building baby stuff. You make it seem like it hasn’t arrived, but is already pre built.

[Street Pharmacist]

Originally Posted by dissentowner

It doesn't take a rocket scientist to understand what changed. What happened just after that time period where he wanted to stay with the Flames for his career? Meredith happened. Now this is not me putting the guy down for putting his wife's desires ahead of his own but if you look at everything that happened it is pretty clear to me who ultimately made the decision to leave Calgary and go back to the US and it was not Gaudreau or his family who by all accounts seem to have wanted to continue the relationship with the Flames. Given what we know about Gaudreau it would fit that he is the submissive one in his relationship and she is the decision maker and the boss. Guy probably just wants to keep her and her family happy and play hockey first, winning and legacy can take a back seat. Again, not saying he is wrong to do that although someday down the road when his career is over and he is just another skilled player who didn't really accomplish much he might regret not sticking to his guns.

That's all possible for sure, but my point still stands: the only explanation for the last minute decision is that he was torn and decided at the last minute. Nothing else makes sense. The whole "he knew exactly what he was doing is nonsense. He said he couldn't decide, and that's the only thing that makes sense. Everything else is speculation and some of it is downright silly

[dino7c]

The Flames GM himself does not think Gaudreau and his camp negotiated in good faith

He is also not doing himself any favors in the media

[Locke]

Originally Posted by Street Pharmacist

That's all possible for sure, but my point still stands: the only explanation for the last minute decision is that he was torn and decided at the last minute. Nothing else makes sense. The whole "he knew exactly what he was doing is nonsense. He said he couldn't decide, and that's the only thing that makes sense. Everything else is speculation and some of it is downright silly

I've said it before but I'll say it again, I'm convinced that his agent dramatically fumbled this, he thought there was interest where there wasnt and essentially Columbus was just the last chair available when the music stopped.

[FormerPresJamesTaylor]

Originally Posted by dissentowner

It doesn't take a rocket scientist to understand what changed. What happened just after that time period where he wanted to stay with the Flames for his career? Meredith happened. Now this is not me putting the guy down for putting his wife's desires ahead of his own but if you look at everything that happened it is pretty clear to me who ultimately made the decision to leave Calgary and go back to the US and it was not Gaudreau or his family who by all accounts seem to have wanted to continue the relationship with the Flames. Given what we know about Gaudreau it would fit that he is the submissive one in his relationship and she is the decision maker and the boss. Guy probably just wants to keep her and her family happy and play hockey first, winning and legacy can take a back seat. Again, not saying he is wrong to do that although someday down the road when his career is over and he is just another skilled player who didn't really accomplish much he might regret not sticking to his guns.

You've pretended to know what's going on enough I think.

[Street Pharmacist]

Originally Posted by Locke

I've said it before but I'll say it again, I'm convinced that his agent dramatically fumbled this, he thought there was interest where there wasnt and essentially Columbus was just the last chair available when the music stopped.

I don't buy it. If you are going to get a big contract want to maximize your market, you announce your intentions early. Waiting until the 11th hour limits how many teams have flexibility. I don't see any agent doing that.

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by Locke

I've said it before but I'll say it again, I'm convinced that his agent dramatically fumbled this, he thought there was interest where there wasnt and essentially Columbus was just the last chair available when the music stopped.

Either that or Gaudreau had no stomach to wait any longer to see what might develop.

[dissentowner]

Originally Posted by FormerPresJamesTaylor

You've pretended to know what's going on enough I think.

Like I give a crap what you think.

[Mr.Coffee]

Originally Posted by DazzlinDino

This is a really good post and some great examples. Being a deaf person I often encourage people to walk in my shoes a little bit, and then they will understand how difficult it can be. For example, if I'm out with a group of friends and they're all chatting and having a good time, it is pretty hard for me to lip read everybody and keep up with the conversation; So then they might be a little confused about why I'm not participating. But if you give them a pair of earphones and turn the music up and then ask them to lip read and keep up with what's going on, it is pretty hard. To top it off, if I don't understand somebody right away sometimes they get frustrated. Imagine that I have to put up with that all day. It helps to try and walk in Johnny shoes a little bit, he was probably very conflicted. On top of that being a young guy, as you said he probably could have handled it a little better. I bet you if he had to do it over again he would do it differently, and he would have probably been more upfront with the organization about his feelings. The funny thing is.., Johnny's probably a really good guy, but somehow people want to paint him as someone who is thoughtless and was trying to hurt the organization. It's like I said being a deaf person, sometimes people are talking to me behind my back, and they think I'm being rude, when I actually, would be happy to smile and interact with them.

Do you think Gaudreau walked in the Flames shoes a bit, and thought about their position at all? Do you think he walks in the fans shoes a bit, to understand where they are coming from and why they may be frustrated at his handling of it?

Understand he is a nice guy and conflicted and all that, he also is an adult and violated what I would consider to be very basic parameters of respect when discussing a contract. Basic things like being as upfront as possible to a team that already paid you over $45MM to play hockey for them over around a decade or so. It would have cost Johnny precisely zero to just be honest and it is opaquely clear he was not.

A lot of forgiveness for a person that showed the Flames, the city, the fans absolutely zero respect, whatsoever.

It's hilarious people are "shocked" at the reaction to Johnny's departure.

[FormerPresJamesTaylor]

Originally Posted by dissentowner

Like I give a crap what you think.

Calling his wife by her first name like you know her is super weird, just stop with the predictions. You're not part of his family.

[PepsiFree]

Originally Posted by Mr.Coffee

It's hilarious people are "shocked" at the reaction to Johnny's departure.

It’s hilarious people are still beating this dead horse months later.

It’s not like anything new is being said, but still the endless long-form posts about why he did it, who he is as a person, what he really thinks, etc etc roll on.

I understand he’s going to be in people’s heads for a long time yet, but man, it’s definitely a little bit shocking that people are still this mad. Kind of embarassing. He’s a hockey player that went to another team. The Flames are looking better without him and, honestly, might not look this good if we’d traded him for spare parts. What could there possibly be to be mad about?

[Street Pharmacist]

Originally Posted by Mr.Coffee

Do you think Gaudreau walked in the Flames shoes a bit, and thought about their position at all? Do you think he walks in the fans shoes a bit, to understand where they are coming from and why they may be frustrated at his handling of it?

Understand he is a nice guy and conflicted and all that, he also is an adult and violated what I would consider to be very basic parameters of respect when discussing a contract. Basic things like being as upfront as possible to a team that already paid you over $45MM to play hockey for them over around a decade or so. It would have cost Johnny precisely zero to just be honest and it is opaquely clear he was not.

A lot of forgiveness for a person that showed the Flames, the city, the fans absolutely zero respect, whatsoever.

It's hilarious people are "shocked" at the reaction to Johnny's departure.

Forgiveness????????????? For what?? This is just you projecting your feelings of being jilted into an imaginary insult. He's done nothing that requires forgiveness

1) Flames fans paid precisely $0 to Gaudreau. While their loyalty to him is what ultimately gets him paid, he's getting paid even more to play in front of another fanbase too, so it's not really like the fans here are the reason he is where he is.

2) While it would've been nicer to have been able to trade his rights to get something, teams do the opposite all the time and no one bats an eye. This is not some harsh move here. Players do this all the time, just usually they're not worth so much to the team trading them.

3) Not sure how you get he's being opaque. He's been very up front about the struggle to come to the decision. You just stubbornly refuse to believe it with zero evidence he isn't being truthful. Again, there's zero leverage or bargaining power gained by waiting until the day before free agency to announce you're on the market. Less than zero. It's a negative.

[dissentowner]

Originally Posted by FormerPresJamesTaylor

Calling his wife by her first name like you know her is super weird, just stop with the predictions. You're not part of his family.

Umm, JG mentions her all the time by her first name, the media mentions her all the time by her first name, stop being an ass. Your MO has gotten old. I know exactly what you are doing here, try getting a life instead of trying to stir #### up on message boards.

[Mr.Coffee]

Originally Posted by PepsiFree

It’s hilarious people are still beating this dead horse months later.

It’s not like anything new is being said, but still the endless long-form posts about why he did it, who he is as a person, what he really thinks, etc etc roll on.

I understand he’s going to be in people’s heads for a long time yet, but man, it’s definitely a little bit shocking that people are still this mad. Kind of embarassing. He’s a hockey player that went to another team. The Flames are looking better without him and, honestly, might not look this good if we’d traded him for spare parts. What could there possibly be to be mad about?

I actually totally agree with you on the spirit / reply you provided to be honest, I am just pointing out because the last few pages have seen a lot of apologetic ridiculousness about a hilariously poor departure from a star player showing zero respect. That's all, it doesn't really matter you're right but to sit around and white wash or pretend what happened didn't happen is all I was really speaking to. To be clear I am not "mad" at anything and I totally agree the Flames are better off in the end.

[nik-]

Originally Posted by dissentowner

Umm, JG mentions her all the time by her first name, the media mentions her all the time by her first name, stop being an ass. Your MO has gotten old. I know exactly what you are doing here, try getting a life instead of trying to stir #### up on message boards.

Maybe the borderline misogyny is over the top. You have no clue what the decision was based on because you're just some random fan playing the blame game on the internet.

[powderjunkie]

Originally Posted by Street Pharmacist

I don't buy it. If you are going to get a big contract want to maximize your market, you announce your intentions early. Waiting until the 11th hour limits how many teams have flexibility. I don't see any agent doing that.

Lewis Gross just did exactly that. The speculation at the time was that he'd be back channelling other teams that they would need to compete with the Flames final offer or else Johnny wouldn't be available at all...which makes all the sense in the world (light-tampering notwithstanding). I don't think Gross understood Johnny's true wishes (because Johnny himself didn't), which would be a major failure and is IMO the most likely place this all fell apart (LG misrepresenting Johnny's position out of his own ignorance and false assumptions)

Another argument would be you're giving GMs a limited time opportunity; whereas a 1-2 week window could easily lead to a more sober analysis and more disciplined offers. Who knows how that would've played out...it actually seems more likely to me that Johnny would have re-signed here if the Flames gave him early permission to explore the market, and he discovered how soft it was.

There is no universally right/wrong strategy for negotiating a deal; sometimes it clicks, sometimes it doesn't. Maybe there was never a path to a deal here, but I think there were just simple miscalculations by each side.

Originally Posted by Mr.Coffee

Do you think Gaudreau walked in the Flames shoes a bit, and thought about their position at all? Do you think he walks in the fans shoes a bit, to understand where they are coming from and why they may be frustrated at his handling of it?

Understand he is a nice guy and conflicted and all that, he also is an adult and violated what I would consider to be very basic parameters of respect when discussing a contract. Basic things like being as upfront as possible to a team that already paid you over $45MM to play hockey for them over around a decade or so. It would have cost Johnny precisely zero to just be honest and it is opaquely clear he was not.

A lot of forgiveness for a person that showed the Flames, the city, the fans absolutely zero respect, whatsoever.

It's hilarious people are "shocked" at the reaction to Johnny's departure.

WhyTF should he do that? It's a negotiation. The Flames could have controlled their destiny at any point by putting their best deal on the table sooner. Flames could've walked in Johnny's shoes and appreciated his probably curiousity/desire to explore the market