Let's Talk about the Calgary Police Service

[Locke]

Originally Posted by zamler

Why is it even seen this way? Speaking the truth should not be some egregious action, and it's not speaking out against all officers it is telling the truth about one.

Because its 'The Code.'

You know how annoyed we get watching hockey and everyone gets frothing at the mouth for a guy to 'answer the bell!'

Its basically like that except every day.

I do find it funny that Policing is considered like a 'Brotherhood' and you never betray one of your brothers!

Have they ever had brothers? Sometimes you screw your brother over just for laughs.

Honestly, I remember saying...'What Police forces need is...more women.'

We have this caricature of women in our minds as these feeble beings who become hysterical emotional wrecks under stress. But I dont see that as true. I think properly trained and experienced they tend to be more clinically analytical and empathetic.

The problem is it would be a drop in the bucket of the 'Old Boys Club.'

Thats the thing that has to be destroyed. That is the impetus behind 'Defund the Police.'

Its nothing against the concept of Police, its something against the ingrained, institutionalized and generally (until recently) accepted behaviour of the Police.

When an institution is poisoned at its core sometimes you have to burn it to the ground and rebuild it anew.

[Old Yeller]

According to CPS, Dunn was suspended with pay for a year after he was charged but has been brought back for an administrative role with the service.

Brutally assault a defenseless person in handcuffs, get a one year paid vacation and a desk job.

It's really hard to agree with the narrative of "a few bad apples" when the organization is seemingly trying it's best to protect those bad apples.

[Locke]

Originally Posted by Old Yeller

Brutally assault a defenseless person in handcuffs, get a one year paid vacation and a desk job.

It's really hard to agree with the narrative of "a few bad apples" when the organization is seemingly trying it's best to protect those bad apples.

I know this is going to sound old and tired and like beating a dead horse.

"But they have to."

If you want to talk about re-organizing Police forces there is a powerful force behind them that probably has to be destroyed and re-built. And even that is disingenuous because its probably more than one.

And while we can blame the Unions and whatever else because we felt we had to protect the Police from the basic nature of doing their jobs, we have empowered them beyond reason.

And we cant blame the Unions or the Police. Thats on us. On our elected officials and decisions we as a populace have made.

[OMG!WTF!]

You cant fire a guy until he's proven guilty too. It would be wildly more expensive to pay damages if they're found not guilty and have list of damages accumulated over the two year trial.

I'm just glad that some how, some way prosecutors found enough evidence to bring forth charges. Truly amazing.

[wireframe]

“The price of apathy towards public affairs is to be ruled by evil men.” - Plato

[Locke]

I must say it is funny, albeit I understand that this isnt relative to the Calgary Police per se, but that the Police Organizations have adopted the Mafia's code of 'Omerta.'

Silence. One never speaks against 'The Family.'

"Hey, that worked really well for those guys....we should do that!!"

[iggy_oi]

I didn’t know where else to post this

Rooster kills police chief after raid on illegal cockfight

https://globalnews.ca/news/7426794/r...ht-blade-spur/

[Zulu29]

Originally Posted by Locke

I must say it is funny, albeit I understand that this isnt relative to the Calgary Police per se, but that the Police Organizations have adopted the Mafia's code of 'Omerta.'

Silence. One never speaks against 'The Family.'

"Hey, that worked really well for those guys....we should do that!!"

Well first off, this is loaded with hysterics. No, Canadian police have not adopted “omertà” nor do they “cover” for eachother on a regular basis. Do some cops do this? Of course they do, they’re human beings and infallible. What are you basing this inflammatory comment off of?

My question for you is, what is your acceptable percentage of police misconduct per year? So for example, take the amount of calls for service vs the amount of police officers in any given jurisdiction and provide a number that you deem acceptable. You don’t have to be happy with the number, but you could accept it as imperfect people doing a dynamic job.

[Locke]

Originally Posted by Zulu29

Well first off, this is loaded with hysterics. No, Canadian police have not adopted “omertà” nor do they “cover” for eachother on a regular basis. Do some cops do this? Of course they do, they’re human beings and infallible. What are you basing this inflammatory comment off of?

My question for you is, what is your acceptable percentage of police misconduct per year? So for example, take the amount of calls for service vs the amount of police officers in any given jurisdiction and provide a number that you deem acceptable. You don’t have to be happy with the number, but you could accept it as imperfect people doing a dynamic job.

1. They are obviously not infallible, I'm going to assume that was a typo on your part.

2. Its not a 'percentage of misconduct' that concerns me whatsoever.

If you get some over-zealous Cop writing a million tickets a month that would suck, but its liveable and correctable. Its the 'Degree of Misconduct' that concerns me.

How many people are shot or are rotting in cells simply for the convenience of the Police? That concerns me.

Did you watch that video? Did you see a need for that officer to smash that woman's skull into the floor?

He got a one-year paid vacation and....re-assigned. Thats it.

But on that note...did you see the other attending officers in that video? Did you see their level of concern? I've been more concerned about unpaid parking than those guys were about a woman getting her skull smacked around.

Did they speak against their Comrade at the hearing? Or did they stay silent?

Theres a term for that. Its on the tip of my tongue...I just cant come up with it....Omerta

[GGG]

Originally Posted by Zulu29

Well first off, this is loaded with hysterics. No, Canadian police have not adopted “omertà” nor do they “cover” for eachother on a regular basis. Do some cops do this? Of course they do, they’re human beings and infallible. What are you basing this inflammatory comment off of?

My question for you is, what is your acceptable percentage of police misconduct per year? So for example, take the amount of calls for service vs the amount of police officers in any given jurisdiction and provide a number that you deem acceptable. You don’t have to be happy with the number, but you could accept it as imperfect people doing a dynamic job.

There should be 0 clear cut cases like this one. There should never be a situation where after the event the officer is able to be charged.

The same way there should be 0 bridge collapses.

[OMG!WTF!]

The "blue wall of silence" is a problem with all police forces. Because we don't hear about it every day doesn't mean it's any less a problem in Calgary. You can have a million perfect encounters with Calgarians and one shady cover up will utterly ruin faith in our force. It's a much worse crime than if a civilian lied to help out a buddy and yet we're more than will to file it under "bad apple" and move along. Weird.

[WhiteTiger]

Originally Posted by Locke

He got a one-year paid vacation and....re-assigned. Thats it.

He's currently on trial for this right now. And then, after the trial is over, he'll be able to face workplace disciplinary action based on the outcome of the trial.

Did they speak against their Comrade at the hearing? Or did they stay silent?

They are all witnesses at the trial that is currently going on, yes, and one spoke up to make sure that the issue was known about in the first place. They will likely be called as witnesses in the hearing for disciplinary action, too.

[Locke]

Originally Posted by WhiteTiger

He's currently on trial for this right now. And then, after the trial is over, he'll be able to face workplace disciplinary action based on the outcome of the trial.



They are all witnesses at the trial that is currently going on, yes, and one spoke up to make sure that the issue was known about in the first place. They will likely be called as witnesses in the hearing for disciplinary action, too.

You want to make a bet?

I'd bet that he keeps his job with a stiff 'talking to.'

Entirely aware that as long as the process continues he keeps getting full pay.

Sounds rough.

How many years could it take?

[WhiteTiger]

Originally Posted by Locke

How many years could it take?

I don't know. Our justice system is long and convoluted and pretty weird for those of us not involved in it. Maybe MBates can speak more to that. I sure can't.

I only know that I was involved (amusingly not through work at all) in a minor breach of contract case...and that went on for three YEARS through the courts.

[Captain Otto]

Originally Posted by Locke

You want to make a bet?

I'd bet that he keeps his job with a stiff 'talking to.'

Entirely aware that as long as the process continues he keeps getting full pay.

Sounds rough.

How many years could it take?

Can anyone take this bet? I'll take it. How much? PM me if interested.

I take e-transfers.

[Oling_Roachinen]

Originally Posted by Zulu29

Well first off, this is loaded with hysterics. No, Canadian police have not adopted “omertà” nor do they “cover” for eachother on a regular basis. Do some cops do this? Of course they do, they’re human beings and infallible. What are you basing this inflammatory comment off of?

Yawn. Read up on Kaminski. Took the stand, bold faced lied right to the court to protect a fellow officer accused of assaulting a citizen despite video evidence. The judge tore him a new one, eventually charges for perjury (and assault with a weapon) were filed but eventually dropped due to delays.

What did the CPS do to Kaminski for lying to the court to protect the officer? They voted him in as the Union President. They protect each other on a regular basis and are very very clearly rewarded by one another for it.

But far more concerning than the reward for protecting one another is the punishment for not. This is what happens when Calgary police, even internally, speak out:

https://calgaryherald.com/news/local...assment-issues

“I believe and expected that the CPS would hear concerns and complaints and act to remedy the problems. I did not expect to be blamed and disliked for taking a stand for what was right, nor did I expect my career with the CPS would be sacrificed,” Ward said, her voice breaking with emotion.

[Zulu29]

Originally Posted by GGG

There should be 0 clear cut cases like this one. There should never be a situation where after the event the officer is able to be charged.

The same way there should be 0 bridge collapses.

You’re right, there shouldn’t be but there will be. Police are human, they’re fallible (thanks Locke). No one has to like or agree with what happened but you have to accept that it will happen. Teachers will have inappropriate relations with students sometimes, doctors will malpractice, lawyers will get investigated for malfeasance, politicians will be corrupt etc etc etc. This things will never cease but that doesn’t mean we shouldn’t be outraged when it does happen.

[Titan]

Originally Posted by WhiteTiger

He's currently on trial for this right now. And then, after the trial is over, he'll be able to face workplace disciplinary action based on the outcome of the trial.



They are all witnesses at the trial that is currently going on, yes, and one spoke up to make sure that the issue was known about in the first place. They will likely be called as witnesses in the hearing for disciplinary action, too.

I agree with this point. However, this happened in a precinct, with a mounted camera immediately above the other officers. It is when the same thing happens at 2:00 am in some alley and no one says anything is the problem. Do we have 24/7 bodycams yet? If no, why not? That is the first major step to reform. The second is if a fellow officer does nothing in light of an assault or abuse of this nature, they are put in the 'dock' right beside the perpetrator. Until that happens, nothing will change. I also think there should be an independent person that reviews random bodycam videos daily. The police really need to demonstrate unbiased reviews of police actions.

This case is ripe for the sacrificial lamb. It is the perfect opportunity for the force to fire this dumbass because the video is already out there and he will have been convicted by a criminal court. This is a slam dunk for the CPS to say 'see we take care of bad apples'.

I would not expect the conclusion of the trial to take too long. Yes, it takes a long time to get here but now it should be quite speedy. I would expect the disciplinary hearing will also be quick as the CPS should want to put this behind them and a criminal conviction, if not immediate dismissal, would be pretty compelling evidence, even without the video

A civil trial, that would be a whole different story and won't start in earnest until the conviction is entered. However, a quick settlement would be a smart move on the City's part.

[Locke]

Originally Posted by Titan

I agree with this point. However, this happened in a precinct, with a mounted camera immediately above the other officers. It is when the same thing happens at 2:00 am in some alley and no one says anything is the problem. Do we have 24/7 bodycams yet? If no, why not? That is the first major step to reform. The second is if a fellow officer does nothing in light of an assault or abuse of this nature, they are put in the 'dock' right beside the perpetrator. Until that happens, nothing will change. I also think there should be an independent person that reviews random bodycam videos daily. The police really need to demonstrate unbiased reviews of police actions.

This case is ripe for the sacrificial lamb. It is the perfect opportunity for the force to fire this dumbass because the video is already out there and he will have been convicted by a criminal court. This is a slam dunk for the CPS to say 'see we take care of bad apples'.

I would not expect the conclusion of the trial to take too long. Yes, it takes a long time to get here but now it should be quite speedy. I would expect the disciplinary hearing will also be quick as the CPS should want to put this behind them and a criminal conviction, if not immediate dismissal, would be pretty compelling evidence, even without the video

A civil trial, that would be a whole different story and won't start in earnest until the conviction is entered. However, a quick settlement would be a smart move on the City's part.

This is why I'd be a terrible Judge.

If I were a Judge and that video was played that trial would last about 30-60 seconds longer than the run-time of that video.

Concluded with: "Get the other guys in here."

[Zulu29]

Originally Posted by Locke

1. They are obviously not infallible, I'm going to assume that was a typo on your part.

2. Its not a 'percentage of misconduct' that concerns me whatsoever.

If you get some over-zealous Cop writing a million tickets a month that would suck, but its liveable and correctable. Its the 'Degree of Misconduct' that concerns me.

How many people are shot or are rotting in cells simply for the convenience of the Police? That concerns me.

Did you watch that video? Did you see a need for that officer to smash that woman's skull into the floor?

He got a one-year paid vacation and....re-assigned. Thats it.

But on that note...did you see the other attending officers in that video? Did you see their level of concern? I've been more concerned about unpaid parking than those guys were about a woman getting her skull smacked around.

Did they speak against their Comrade at the hearing? Or did they stay silent?

Theres a term for that. Its on the tip of my tongue...I just cant come up with it....Omerta

1) Yes I meant to say they’re not infallible.

2) I’m not sure what point you’re trying to make bringing up a traffic cop writing a million tickets, that’s they’re job and as long as the ticket is for an offence there’s nothing wrong with that, it’s not misconduct. How many people are shot or rotting in cells at the convenience of the police? I don’t know, you tell me, you seem to have some inside knowledge on this. Please, provide some examples.

Yes, I watched the video, perhaps you missed my post where I called it disgusting. No I do not think that was necessary and I do not condone excessive force, quite frankly it reflects poorly on every police officer.

With regards to his “one year vacation” and reassignment, I’ll have to look into the actual sanctions before making comment. However, there is precedence for offences like that, such as 60 days of pay, a permanent discipline record which is disclosable for criminal trials as well as permanent limitations on duty options in the future. Then on top of that there are the criminal repercussions. If he’s found guilty of aggravated assault that can come with a weapons ban so that can result in him losing his job as he wouldn’t be able to carry a firearm.

With regards to their reaction? It looks like they were kind of shocked to be honest, now the supervisor on scene told the member to stay away from the victim and that it was the worst case of excessive force he’d seen to that member at the scene. He then went on to testify against that subject officer during trial. Did the other members do that? I don’t know, I’d have to read the court transcripts. But you holding this case up as an example on police covering for each other is weak.